I saw an article about Lego Mindstorms being discontinued. What will this mean for Lego League’s future?
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Probably not much. The LEGO Education version of the latest Mindstorms hardware is not going anywhere.
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FLL is currently migrating to the new SPIKE Prime hardware and software.
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FLL has allowed for older versions to be used, and most likely won’t stop that any time soon. They still allow NXT and RCX.
LEGO discontinued EV3 in June 2021, so the only Mindstorms branded LEGO product at the moment is Robot Inventor which is the retail version of the Spike Prime (Spike Prime being the edu version).
It mostly means LEGO is getting out of the non-edu robot space at least for the time being.
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I really like the idea of programming the Spike Prime in either Scratch or Python. I think that’s a great option for youth and educational programs. I’m stoked to see this next generation of FLL.
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I feel like its not going to have many negative affects on FLL. Even though EV3 is good I feel like Spike Prime has more precision and more advanced features. The one thing I dislike about spike is the fact that it only has 6 ports which limits the number of motors and sensors you can have (even taking into account the build in gyro) vs EV3 with 8 ports.
So based on all the comments unaware that the latest consumer Mindstorms set (51515) is Spike Prime and has been out for a few years now, I think I have some idea of why this happened… Shame they couldn’t find the same success the NXT line seemed to have again.
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Not sure why Lego did this, but I’ll bet it has to do with what educators do in their classrooms. While both FLL and the VEXIQ counter part seem like it would be the driving force for the companies, it’s not. Our competitions is a very small part of the revenue stream.
But I thought you could have multiple hubs with Spike Prime, is that not the case?
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My teams have actually found that they achieved higher precision using the EV3. The main problem is the blue wheels that come with the Spike Prime has less traction than the other wheels with black rubber tires. This is exacerbated by the lower weight of the Spike Prime brick. Last season, both my teams conducted testing confirmed that it was the tires. There have also been many other teams on the FLL:Share and Learn facebook group reporting the same symptoms. The only significant advantage the Spike Prime has is the gyro does not have the “drift” issues that the EV3 gyro did. With some programming and careful procedures, the drift issue in the EV3 gryo can be mitigated. The EV3 also has an LCD screen that allows a lot of features that the Spike Prime does not have.
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For FLL, you can only use one hub per robot. It’s not legal to use more than more hub (also can only use up to 4 motors).
My FLL Challenge team switched to Spike Prime this year. They did have to make a call as to using a second attachment motor or using a second light sensor because of the fewer ports (as of right now, they are using the second attachment motor).
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Well that is sad news. The Robot Inventor set was a really good value, and basically the same electronics as the Spike Prime. We’re using Spike with our rookie FLL teams and it is my favorite programmable brick yet.
The Education products are a little bit harder to find and buy, but the approach they have taken with the “advanced drive base” design and modular tools is really pretty good.
I had noticed the availability of Mindstorms go from “temporarily out of stock” to now “sold out” and hoped it just meant they would update the retail set for the new year. I hope they decide to carry more of the Education products in their retail stores.
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This could be due to the same “supply chain issues” I have to deal with at work, finding electronic parts. It isn’t just the complex parts like microprocessors. Even resistors and capacitors can have unusually long and inconsistent lead times.
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It could be due to supply chain issues, (the pain is real!) but the story I was given by LEGO customer service was that they have different inventory levels for the different sales channels.
The same electronics go into the Spike Prime set that are in the Robot Inventor. Even buying the Spike through LEGO retail I hit the “lifetime purchase limit” of two sets. They sent me to LEGO Education when I asked to purchase a third. The reason they gave for limiting sales was that they had limited stock at retail.
So now if they are discontinuing the Mindstorms brand, it could mean they’re pulling back the robotic sets from retail, or it could mean they’ll bring more Education-branded products into retail. I suspect they decided it was not worth supporting two separate software development systems for the same basic hardware. I’d hate to see them withdraw completely from the home market with these robotics sets.
It figures. Just when this RCX fanatic rediscovers LEGO robotics, they pull the best set off the market.
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This was most definitely caused by the “supply chain issues”. Specifically STM32 Chips. At this point, STM32 chips are so commonly used that they have almost become a commodity.
I am sure they realized they could not get enough ICs to support a retail product so they narrowed the scope to just education.
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Well sure, but it’s the same chips in both product lines. Literally the only difference is the color of the plastic housing and the mix of motors and sensors. It may be a challenge to source more SKUs under supply chain pressure and chip shortages, but LEGO chose to drop the consumer product line and sundown the software support for Mindstorms. Yet the same turquoise brick works perfectly fine with the Spike software, which will still be supported.
This seems more about streamlining their product offerings, which are definitely out of control. If you search lego.com, you are greeted with dozens of overlapping product themes, some with one or even zero products listed in them. Mindstorms had only 51515 Robot Inventor in it, and they apparently had separate development teams supporting Mindstorms and Spike.
I’m sure they have good reasons for making this change. I just hope they find a way to keep the robotic sets front-and-center for their retail customers, or the product line could wither on the vine.
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I would also like to point out that there is no reason that you could not use a raspberry PI with the Build hat. You would only get 4 ports but there might be a way to expand it. This would also have interesting implications for transitioning to other programming languages or even going to wpilib while still using the FLL components.
Raspberry Pi is not legal for the robot for FLL. You could use it for other than FLL robot purposes (innovation project prototype or just for other educational purposes).
For the robot: “All equipment must be LEGO® made building pieces, in original factory condition.
Exception: LEGO string and pneumatic tubes may be cut to length.” (from the Robot Game Rulebook, pg 17: https://firstinspiresst01.blob.core.windows.net/first-energize/fll-challenge/fll-challenge-superpowered-robot-game-rulebook.pdf)
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Or just use the Spike Prime, which is still being supported, and is fully FLL legal.
Talk about supply chain issues - have you tried to buy an rPi lately?
As a PSA, I have noticed that LEGO has more Mindstorms 51515 sets in stock, both online and at their retail stores. It looks like they’re selling through their remaining stock.
The kit is a pretty decent value, although you might want to supplement with a Spike Prime Expansion Set if you’re doing FLL.