Official event Twitch VoDs are being unpublished and not re-published due to potential DMCA and Copyright strikes. For areas that do not use JK production servers to immediately upload to YouTube, we cannot view events until a later time. Also events that do use JK production servers sometimes do not have the correct match uploaded or weird hiccups happen on rare occasion (though I will say this is an overall fantastic service).
YouTube streams have no audio between matches providing a poor experience.
I would love to hear the communities input on how we can help provide a better experience and access match archives immediately. On FUN’s end we really need this so we can create content for shows like FRC Recap.
Here’s my solution and one that we have implemented for many FRC & FTC events that FUN streams:
Event outputs a stream feed that is mixed with all except for music.
Events purchase an allow listed service (which are pretty reasonably priced) and just have that music play continuously. You can even assign the webcast operator to worry about this instead of switching cameras.
Result: Is it big DJ dance music or even synced to when matches start? No, but it’s some sort of filler audio and it’s way better than nothing.
It also practically guarantees you that your stream will not be taken down and also that you can just utilize the videos right away to port to YT.
It also helps prevent potential DCMA should any microphone pick up some house music as the stream music will be louder. I can practically guarantee this works as we have utilized it on dozens of streams.
Any other ideas or solutions we could implement would be great.
The latest trend on Twitch is to stream music but stream separate audio tracks between the live feed and the VOD. This means that live viewers will be able to hear the music audio track, but VODs will not have them. This does not protect you against live DMCA strikes, but it does protect you against bots going through VODs to scan for copyrighted audio, which is most of where DMCA strikes come from currently.
There are a few different ways to do this, depending on your streaming software. It’s very easy.
PNW has been using (edit: a version of, the regular music is at the event only and stream/vod gets different music) this solution since the beginning of 2022. I dont know offhand how this solution works though on the backend, past that Monstercat is used for the streams.
PNW also has its own stream clipper and uploader made originally by @jojoguy10, though he has since moved on to bigger and better things elsewhere and the project has different maintainers.
I think this is a reasonable compromise, especially with the growing demand for alternate feeds on YouTube, which does have live Content ID on streams. Is there any chance FIRST could even get a sponsorship from a service like Monstercat or Pretzel for their stream music?
Came here to post this. Between this, and maybe adding some closed captioning (even the poorly-done live OBS services instead of NOTHING…), I’d be overjoyed for two valuable adds to the viewing experience.
To my understanding, PNW does not do separate tracks between the stream and VOD. PNW does do pretty much what Tyler is suggesting. We do run two independent computers streaming music, one on Spotify and one on Monstercat (licensed to FIRST WA’s Twitch and YouTube accounts). The main mix routes Spotify to the venue with Monstercat muted, with the opposite for the stream on an aux output on the board. (When looking into music options at the start of last season, Monstercat came to mind partially because of FUN )
(edit: in PNW’s case, Monstercat is typically left in the background to run, while Spotify in the venue is more closely controlled. this leads to some interesting music selections, such as Tokyo Machine’s Jingle Bells playing during matches )
At the start of the week 1 weekend, PNW was streaming through JK Productions’ servers, but due to some hiccups by the end of the weekend Glacier Peak was going directly to Twitch, relying 100% on our local recording tool.
One other option to look at for OBS is utilizing audio channels or ‘tracks’. This allows you to only output certain audio sources as selected. So for Twitch for example if you wanted to have house music go out to stream but not have the audio on the recording output you could do this with one computer. I don’t remember 100% but this may be what JK Productions does also.
You can utilize audio tracks for the Twitch VoD also. In addition you could have separate music only streaming to a non stream track for the VoD if you want so this way live would get the house music and the VoD would get allow listed music. The recording you could choose if you wanted, house, VoD or no music. This would seem like the optimal choice to me.
Looking at off-seasons that I am present at producing I think this will be what we choose to move forward with.
This is what I am talking about. And I disagree with what you said above personally. I was trying to watch FiT events on the plane and it was not a pleasant experience. I imagine non-FIRSTers who are trying to watch (a big reason why some districts are going to YT over Twitch) would agree.
I don’t have the stats but I would guess that average watch time is significantly lower on streams with no music.
If house music is being removed anyway, I would rather just play by own music underneath than have something I may or may not like permanently embedded in the only easily found footage of my team’s performances. It’s pretty easy to have Spotify going simultaneously on whatever I’m watching on.
It does a bit, but in the case of FMA’s streams, I’m not sure music over the static wide shot would be that much more engaging. We could really use some alternate stuff to cut to, though I’m not quite sure what that should be, and I understand it would demand extra volunteers (I believe a few events are understaffed on the A/V side as-is).
+1, PNW has run into similar challenges… perhaps with a contact at YouTube/Google something could be arranged; presumably HQ has something that allows them to upload so many matches a week.
It could be placebo, but my understanding is the current theory is the limit is based on the number of videos you usually upload, so over time as you consistently upload a lot of videos, the daily limit increases. Last season as I recall our later events were able to upload much more per day than our earlier events. However, after the gap between seasons our limit seems to have fallen again…
@Jonathan_Norris Not sure if you’re still involved with ONT streams but I figure you’ll probably know who is. As a get-around to rate limits, could you open up multiple FIRSTOntario YouTube accounts, split the videos amongst these channels, and put everything into a shared playlist? Then migrate all the other videos over to the official account for long-term access. This’ll give teams a chance to review matches they couldn’t record before elims. Will be big for DCMP.
I’m watching the Aerospace Valley Regional on firstinspires16 and the audio keeps getting cut for copyright issues. Watching on the twoku channel on Roku, the stream completely drops and the channel freezes. This happens every few minutes, often in the midst of a match. Very frustrating. I don’t think there is any alternative to watch twitch on Roku is there?
For this group of individuals? Maybe. For other more ‘casual’ groups that represent a much larger audience set that are not on here or the general public; I would think my statement would hold more validity.
If you are telling me that the general public would appreciate no music at all and just silence for 7-15 minutes before another match then I would surmise you are very out of touch with the rest of the FRC community outside the super engaged on here/discord.
99% of the time I am not watching the stream live. I am going back to watch VODs for scouting or response purposes. I will usually be doing this to watch a specific robot who either will be at a future event or their team asked a question on Delphi. I don’t need audio to do that and sometimes purposefully mute the video if the audio is choppy or tingy.
I am not the target audience Tyler is talking about. If I am showing my family or someone new to FIRST a match it will be one with clean audio, epic music and a GA who is on point. These are the people in my opinion that we need to be making these videos more accessible for. As those of us who are already in won’t be turned away by a bad video or stream but someone who is not already involved won’t be intrigued enough to look further.