Posted by Kyle.
Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Gunn High School and Sun Microsystems, Xerox PARC, and Nortel Networks.
Posted on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST
Correct me if I have any of this wrong:
The light must be within the size limitations of the robot, and counts towards the final weight of the robot.
The bumper does not have to be within the size limitations of the robot, but DOES count towards the final weight of the robot.
The weight restriction is the same as last year
Lights
Having this giant light to identify which team a robot is on is useless in my
mind. For me, it is not difficult at all to tell which bots are on which team,
but I’m sure the same does not go for everybody. But making us fit the light
into our size and weight restrictions is a lot to ask. In 1999, our robot was
very close to being overweight. I don’t know if any other teams had that
problem, but adding a light on could throw a team overweight, and disqualify
them from the entire competition. Is a light really that important? The same
goes with the size restricion. The light is not small. Adding an extra foot to
the height restriction may help this aspect, but it still does not solve
anything. Since the weight restricion is the same, having a bigger robot
plus an extra light and bumpers will only make it harder to meet the weight
limit. Paper identification cards is one thing. I’m sure in some extreme case,
they could send a robot overweight, but that’s cutting it pretty close.
Bumpers
Having bumpers may be a good idea. It can decrease the damage done to
robots when there is interaction. Including them in the weight limit may be
a good idea too, because a team could simply use solid steel bumpers.
But can we get an idea of how many teams will be using some kind of
bumper? What if 50% don’t… Will that mean anything?
Anyways, I don’t like lights or bumpers. Can we use the light as a bumper? =)
Posted by Janna.
Student on team #349, The RoBahamas, from International Academy and Ford Motor Company.
Posted on 1/9/2000 6:44 AM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
: Lights
: Having this giant light to identify which team a robot is on is useless in my
: mind. For me, it is not difficult at all to tell which bots are on which team,
: but I’m sure the same does not go for everybody.
Hi,
My school competed in the Delphi competition, and we noticed that the light also serves a purpose other than identification of teams. If you have your light hooked up correctly and your robot won’t work but the light is on, then FIRST knows their radios are working and that it isn’t their fault that your robot won’t move.
Janna
Posted by Erin.
Student on team #1, The Juggernauts, from OTC-NE, Oxford High School and 3-D Services.
Posted on 1/9/2000 10:13 AM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
Kyle,
I also don’t like the bumper idea. if we didn’t use bumpers this year, then we would have to protect ourselves with our ‘robustness’. dean mentioned how our robots should be ‘robust’, and I think that we we made them strong enough, bumpers wouldn’t matter. it would be a better lesson in tough robot building. but with these bumpers, there are probably going to be teams who build weaker and expect the bumprs to protect them.
maybe i am confused?
i guess i am a little stuck on last years’ game.
but about the lights- for those of you who didn’t attend CDI, I LOVE THE LIGHTS!! They look ‘INSANELY’ cool, and it also saves time on thinking of ideas on how to identify your robot with what team you are on.
but i still don’t like those bumpers!!
-erin
Posted by Lora Knepper.
Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Company.
Posted on 1/9/2000 2:31 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Lights, Bumpers posted by Erin on 1/9/2000 10:13 AM MST:
I also think that the bumpers are a complete waste of time and materials, though I leave room to change that opinion at any time! 
We should be more concerned with the actual machines rather than worrying whether the bumper will protect us! As for the lights, I think they’ll be really cool, but I’m wondering on the brightness. I remember a lot of destractions while driving the bot for the past two years, and I’m wondering if this will cause a problem. Not that I don’t love looking at flashing lights!
Good Luck
Lora Knepper
Team 69 (HYPER)
Posted by Michael Martus. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Coach on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central H.S. and Delphi Automotives Systems.
Posted on 1/9/2000 10:16 AM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
The lights add more identification for more than the team members. The ref’s and the public often have a hard time telling who is with who.
And another point… They add an excitement of ‘Flash’ to the event. This make good footage for TV and other media.
As the other posting says they also have a function. They tell you when power is on or off. It helps identify who has the problem if there is a power failure and when it occured, what moment.
As a bumper, they are very durable as Dean dropped it from 5 ft and it just bounced.
I am sure that teams can mount them is an appropriate location that will not hinder their machine.
Weight of these… this year look close at the additional materials list,…weight problem solved.
Bumpers, bumpers, I agree what a waste of energy. Why would you bump a team and put them at risk when you need your opponent to score points for you to win. If they are damaged then you have to score for them for you to score any reasonable amount of points.
Posted by Jerry Eckert.
Engineer from Looking for a team in Raleigh, NC sponsored by .
Posted on 1/9/2000 12:56 PM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
: Correct me if I have any of this wrong:
: The light must be within the size limitations of the robot, and counts towards the final weight of the robot.
I scanned the manual quickly and did not see any indication that the light is exempt from the
size and weight restrictions.
: The bumper does not have to be within the size limitations of the robot, but DOES count towards the final weight of the robot.
The bumper does not have to fit within the 30’x36’ footprint; however, there are size and placement restrictions on the bumper as well (see rule M3 for details):
- may not extend more then 6' past the maximum starting dimension of the robot
- may be a maximum of 6' tall
- must be centered 6.5' off the floor
: The weight restriction is the same as last year
The weight limit is 130 lbs. I believe this is the same as last year.
Jerry
Posted by Jon.
Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.
Posted on 1/9/2000 1:05 PM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
I love the lights!! I think the bumper stuff may grow on me… but i don’t know yet.
That light only needs to be ‘mounted on the robot such that the alliance color is visible in at least 4 locations 90 degrees apart around the sides of the robot from a distance of at least 50 feet.’
That doesn’t mean it has to be on top of it… plus you (probably) don’t want to be 5’ anyways, because the bar is also 5’ from the ramp… its like those height warnings for parking buildings and overpasses…
and remember… dean said you didn’t -have- to have bumpers…
Posted by colleen. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Other on team #246, a FIRST-aholic, from John D. O’Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy/Madison HS and NSTAR/Boston University/Wentworth Institute of Technology/MassPEP.
Posted on 1/9/2000 2:45 PM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
Lights are cool 
btw… if you read the rules carefully, the bumper counting against weight isn’t totally clear (or could be interpreted differently) about it counting against weight, because it needs to be easily removable to facilitate inspection, so do they weigh your bot with it on or off?
New question as a double check- since materials used don’t count against the material limit of the 'bot, that means if you buy the stuff you use from small parts, it doesn’t count against your $425, am i correct?
Posted by Jerry Eckert.
Engineer from Looking for a team in Raleigh, NC sponsored by .
Posted on 1/9/2000 3:12 PM MST
In Reply to: Bumper weight & more posted by colleen on 1/9/2000 2:45 PM MST:
: Lights are cool
: btw… if you read the rules carefully, the bumper counting against weight isn’t totally clear (or could be interpreted differently) about it counting against weight, because it needs to be easily removable to facilitate inspection, so do they weigh your bot with it on or off?
I thought I heard someone explicitly state during the kick-off that the weight of the
bumper does count. I have not seen anything in the rules which would lead to me
conclude otherwise. The bumpers can be weighed at the same time as the robot
even if they are not physically attached.
: New question as a double check- since materials used don’t count against the material limit of the 'bot, that means if you buy the stuff you use from small parts, it doesn’t count against your $425, am i correct?
That’s the way I interpret rule M3. Of course, the cost of the material will count against
the $425 SPI credit if purchased from Small Parts.
Jerry
Posted by P.J. Baker.
Engineer on team #177, Bobcat Robotics, from South Windsor High School and International Fuel Cells.
Posted on 1/9/2000 6:30 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Bumper weight & more posted by Jerry Eckert on 1/9/2000 3:12 PM MST:
Bumper weight has to count. Otherwise, it would be possible to build a 200lb 'bot - an immovable object.
Posted by Nate Smith.
Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Ypsilanti HS/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.
Posted on 1/9/2000 7:48 PM MST
In Reply to: Bumper weight & more posted by colleen on 1/9/2000 2:45 PM MST:
: btw… if you read the rules carefully, the bumper counting against weight isn’t totally clear (or could be interpreted differently) about it counting against weight, because it needs to be easily removable to facilitate inspection, so do they weigh your bot with it on or off?
Rule M13: ‘During robot inspection, all mechanisms that will be used on the robot at the event must be present on the robot.’
Posted by Daniel.
Coach on team BORG (Berkeley Operational Robotics Group) from Berkeley High School sponsored by (working on the sponsor, too).
Posted on 1/9/2000 7:22 PM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
I know you guys pretty much already dealt with the issues kyle brought up, but i just want to add one thing about the lights (since most posts have simply been oppinions). Last year, to figure out who was on who’s team I primarily looked at the color of the floppies they were carrying (it was the most visable indicator). Not only can you not do that this year, but you can’t even look at what goal the robots are scoring in because robots will be scoring in both goals! This way you look for a second and you just KNOW. You can really see when a blue robot puts a ball in the red goal. It’s painfully obvious what’s going on at any given time. And, in a game that’s this hard to score (expect another post from me about THAT), I think it’s vital for the crowd to know who’s got control of the match. Great job finding those, Joe!! I love 'em (
Posted by Mike King.
Other on team #88, TJ², from Bridgewater Raynham and Johnson & Johnson Professional.
Posted on 1/14/2000 8:20 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Lights, Bumpers posted by Daniel on 1/9/2000 7:22 PM MST:
Speaking on the Light Issue. I like it.
I noticed last year that during the competition, some teams would show up with there numbers Hanging off, Not present, or One of each color. (Ok, maybe not the last one)
I’m just gonna make sure that if the light is in a ‘Bash Zone’, it has a quick clip connector on it so we could change it out quickly.
Posted by Kyle Huang.
Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Gunn High School and Sun Microsystems, Nasa/Ames and Xerox PARC.
Posted on 1/9/2000 11:08 PM MST
In Reply to: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle on 1/9/2000 1:21 AM MST:
after having picked up a light, maybe it isn’t such a big problem. but you never know
when you could be stuck in a situation in which you’re a day away from shipping
and your robot is already ten lbs overweight… i saw one team weighing in their robot;
it was too heavy, but extremely close. they removed a velcro strip from their basket
and it was right on the weight limit, so they got to play. a light would definately have
held them overweight.
Thanks daniel, I neglected to realize that there aren’t color seperated balls or floppies
this year, and robots can have motivation to score for their opponents. in this respect,
the lights would help a lot.
Yeah, i didn’t goto CDI, so i don’t know what light look like on a robot. but i still don’t
think i would like them if i saw them. it just reminds me of one team at the NASA
Ames regional that attached a light and siren to their dolly, that went off whenever
it was moved. THAT THING was IRRITATING (repressed memories coming back)…
Bumpers:
I think that some teams will definately attach a bumper to a robot that isn’t built so
robustly, with the expectations that it will protect them. but i wouldn’t count on it,
if there are to be things such as arms (like last year). either way, this shouldn’t
be an excuse to build a weak robot.
Posted by Dan.
Student on team #10, BSM, from Benilde-St. Margaret’s and Banner Engineering.
Posted on 1/10/2000 7:40 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Lights, Bumpers posted by Kyle Huang on 1/9/2000 11:08 PM MST:
I wonder how many teams with bumpers are going to come in overweight and remove the bumpers to get under weight. Then they’ll be singin’ praise to the bumpers.
:-Dan
Posted by Daniel.
Coach on team BORG (Berkeley Operational Robotics Group) from Berkeley High School sponsored by (working on the sponsor, too).
Posted on 1/10/2000 8:21 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: Bumpers may save you . . . posted by Dan on 1/10/2000 7:40 PM MST:
On second thought, I think I’ll have my team make bumpers!! =)