As per Team Update #7, there’s a new rule that dictates team members must remain 3 feet away from the field barrier and control systems.
This means that, after the autonomous period ends, there’s going to be a mad dash for your team’s controls. Conceivably, this could affect matches adversely (in my eyes, anyway.)
I would hate to see matches won or lost because someone’s not a sprinter. I know, it’s only 3 feet. . . but, it just seems like this new rule is probably creates more of a safety hazard than already exists, and is to prohibit something that is probably just as easily accomplished by asking teams not to touch their controls during the autonomous period - or penalizing them if they do.
I’m worried that someone is going to trip, and catch their chin on that nice control shelf. FIRST should really consider changing this as I feel it WILL become a safety hazard.
Well… I don’t think that anyone will get hurt. People are not that stupid. Besides, three feet is a step forward. Measure it some time… you really only need one large step.
What does concern me, however, is that FIRST seems to making more and more rules, making the entire competition unnecessarily complex (I don’t mean robot wise, but administratively and competition-wise).
Sounds like a clarification is needed…it is sort of late in the game for such changes…what about teams who are making “form-fitting” controls that become a “part” of the driver.
Will they have to stand back and then strap-em-on after the 15 second period? Like I said…kind of late to lay this kind of thing on us.
Perhaps we can keep the wiring and interface stitched into the drivers cloths, and provide a quick connect connector interface that “plus” it all in with one quick connect.
*Originally posted by nkrumm *
**Well… I don’t think that anyone will get hurt. People are not that stupid. Besides, three feet is a step forward. Measure it some time… you really only need one large step.
**
It’s not that hard to step over the railings onto the field either. But someone tripped, broke their leg, and now we have those wonderful gates…
The way I interpret the rule is that the Human Player and the Coaches must stand behind the 3’ line but the drivers can be at the controls.
To me this whole line of rules makes absoulutly no since because the OI is will not send or the RC won’t accept any input from the drivers so what is the point of making the drivers stand back?
Remember what was said at the kick-off about showmanship. I suspect that their motivation is to let the audience clearly see when the robots are autonomous and when they are controlled.
i just read team update 7, and i thought it said that the 2 other (as in, human players) and coach per team (as in, 2 coaches) have to stand behind the line for the duration of the competition (except for the time the human player is stacking, duh :p).
if we do indeed have a “mad dash to the controls” the only thing that will happen is problems.
excited rookie driver, or really any driver at all. buzzer sounds, they rush to the controls, rush a bit to fast, controls wind up in pieces on the floor. opps?
another excited driver, runs to fast, hurts themself smacking into wall/each other/controls/etc.
lastly, we have a girl on our team who is handicapped, but she may turn out to be a very good driver, because she has an electric wheelchair with one joystick, and we think she may be able to drive the robot pretty good because of that. now, she can walk, but she can’t jump forward three feet in the same time as anyone who wasn’t disabled could. if there is indeed a rush, this rule would alienate her, because then she would not be able to be a driver, because we would loose the precious seconds that it takes to get to the controls. she’s also quite stubborn, so someone wouldn’t be able to pick her up or push her in a wheelchair, she’d shoot them :p.
long story short, if we do need to rush to the controls, only bad things will happen.
each team has four (4) players… one from each team is stacking, so three are left, 2 students and 1 coach… the new rule is for initial setup, so while everyone is getting set up, at the beginning of the match, they want everything to be nice and even, they never say during the auto mode, or even during the stacking, the players can’t move, they want everyone all equal at the start…
personally i think its a useless rule, but in their favor, it does make the start photogenic and no one can cry foul play because person A was taking to stacker B or some such nonsence… i think they are trying to solve problems before they can happen
Well… I don’t think that anyone will get hurt. People are not that stupid.
Hey hey hey speak for yourself. Never ever underestimate the power of clumsy people. They can do things that you think you couldn’t do. I once broke my own nose by kneeing myself in the face.
During the Human Player Period and the Autonomous Control Period, no one is allowed on the field side of the line, except, if one team’s designated driver needs to hit the e-stop button to do an emergency stop of the robot during the Autonomous Control Period. Once the Autonomous Control Period is over, the teams can step up to the team controls that are on the shelves and start manual control of the robots.
So, while the wording of the rules may be unclear as to during what phases of gameplay the participants must stand 3’ from the player station, this answer is pretty clear.
This wouldn’t be the first time, though, I’ve seen several entirely different answers to the same question.
Perhaps we can keep the wiring and interface stitched into the drivers cloths, and provide a quick connect connector interface that “plus” it all in with one quick connect.
Control systems are not my area of expertise, but would doing this require the OI to be reset to accept input from a new device? I’m not certain if the Basic Stamp is plug-n-play If a reboot is required, that’s even more time lost.
Would a three foot wire from the controls to the operator standing three feet away be legal?
As for making a control system you where and pluging it in after Autonomous period, I think it will work. If you look a the pinouts on the joystick ports it has you just pluging pots directly to the system making the control completely uni-directional, unless you want it bi-directional with feed back lights.
Although I don’t see it causing a big problem overall, I do see this causing un-needed confusion and or tasks to complete. I think it will take significant portions of the matches away, and the majority will be without 10 seconds or so of getting to the controls.
… as I understand it… at the end of the autonomous time, all floor team members will then enter the player sataion? … glad we have a fast base driver
The rule is under section 7.1 which is initial setup, as for the human player period and the autonomous period, the players and coach arent limited other than they must stay in the control station. I interpret that as during the setup, you must stand 3’ back from the controls, but during the 25 seconds of the competition before the controlled part kicks in, you can move up 3’ to the controls. I could be wrong, but this sounds like what they mean.
*Originally posted by RoboCoder *
**The rule is under section 7.1 which is initial setup, as for the human player period and the autonomous period, the players and coach arent limited other than they must stay in the control station. I interpret that as during the setup, you must stand 3’ back from the controls, but during the 25 seconds of the competition before the controlled part kicks in, you can move up 3’ to the controls. I could be wrong, but this sounds like what they mean. **
Please read the quote I’ve provided, given as an official answer on FIRST’s message boards. It directly contradicts your interpretation.
Heh, I have taken my own interpretation to rules before they were officially posted and found out that they were basically what I said, so lets try it again.
IF operators must be 3’ away during the first 25 seconds, they should be allowed to move into position of joysticks within the last 5 seconds before control to the humans begin.
This is my guess of how FIRST will clarify it. It is NOT official
I think the key thing to remember here is how small 3 feet is. It can easily be crossed, quickly in 1 step. I’ve had to march 5 yards in 4 steps and that starts to get a little hard, but it won’t be a problem.
If a reboot is required, that’s even more time lost.