Major mentor turnover

FIRST General Forum
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Hello CD,
I’m a senior and one of the co-captains on my team. The last couple of years has been very hard on my team (as I know they have for other teams), but we felt pretty ready to make a comeback this year and regain our lost ground.

However, our school administration decided this week that they no longer want our lead mentor participating on the team in any way. We don’t know why. We’ve been under his leadership for something like 14 years, and now we need to pick the team up and move on without any kind of transition period. Two of our other mentors had to step away for personal reasons, leaving us with only one of our consistently involved mentors. We do have two teacher advisors (both new), doing their best to support the team, and one has agreed to be our new lead mentor. We also have several new mentors who are interested in getting involved with the team, with a possibility of more on the way.

My biggest concern with all of this is that above the student level, there is now next to no experience on the team with FRC itself, and I worry about our new mentors and advisors not being familiar with FIRST’s culture, values, protocol, and with the way our team operates. I will say, we’ve gotten a lot of push from our advisors and the school to redefine a lot of how the team works, which worries me.

I realize I may just have to let go of some of the hopes I have for our team this year, but I still think we’ll be able to do a lot. I’m wondering if anyone has any advice for me or my team on how to move forward and preserve as much as we can, especially on preparing new mentors for their roles.

Thanks!

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If you can’t do well, so be it. You don’t have to perform well every single year. Your team is clearly going through a lot of changes this season. Take the time to figure things out, plan for the next season, and train students. There’s no need to overwork yourself; do what you’re capable of and you’ll inspire the students to continue.

Edit to add: And yes, it will suck if your senior year is less about robots and more about the team. But it’s necessary (unfortunately). Come back and mentor the team. You’ll have an entire year of team management and planning under your belt.

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One of the biggest things that can help new mentors: Other mentors! Get in touch with nearby teams and ask for help. Mentors mentoring mentors can go a long way to helping them get ready for the season and keeping things moving forward for your team. Coincidentally, we were just contacted today through the grapevine (School admin → one of our sponsor’s outreach teams → one of our former mentors → us) to help another local team that seems to be going through something similar - I don’t have the details, but they’re looking for advice on getting more mentors and building up institutional knowledge on how to run a team. Last year, we worked with a new mentor on another team to help him get up to speed, and had him visit our shop a few times to observe and learn a bit about building FRC robots.

These sorts of mentor-to-mentor connections do great things to bring rookie mentors up to speed, and even for experienced mentors to learn new things.

Past that, you may be focused more this year on building the team. You can still build a good robot, but you’re going to do it while teaching and training others with an eye towards next year. Talk with the new mentors about how the team works, what your team culture is like, and work together to get on the same page. When there’s a large leadership change like this, it likely also means some change to how the team runs. Be open to change, honest about what you like and don’t like about how the team runs, and go in willing to work with them to make it better. Holding on to the way things were will result in friction between you and any mentors that want to change something, and we’ve seen those types of threads on here in the past - it’s not good for your mental health or the overall success of the team.

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This year it will be imperative to set realistic goals and stick to them. Even better is building in steps, check out the team 95 open alliance thread about planning for added features. Make sure you have a product on the field accomplishing something to help inspire the new ranks.
But maybe more important is you, other experienced students, and mentors can take the next couple months to teach as many skills as possible to the new students. Do trainings, especially safety, on how to use all the tools in the shop. Learn how to do cad and build a virtual bot. If you have the resources build some of those subsystems. Program the 2022 bot over or differently, teaching along the way. Etc. And get mentors, students and funding. It seems like the small mentor base you have is going to quickly get burnt out. This includes parents to do some of the travel, planning, and admin lifting if they aren’t technical.

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FIRST FRC Senior Mentors are here to help you. I presume all the help would have to be remote which isn’t too bad for mentor to mentor but cumbersome if students are involved (YPP concerns). You might even get lucky and have one near you.

https://www.firstinspires.org/ways-to-help/volunteer/first-senior-mentor-program/current-senior-mentors

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Other than any official school hours work, I’m not sure how any employer can restrict what volunteering work their employees decided to do on their own time. So even if your team only meets/works during school hours, there shouldn’t be anyway that your District can force your current Lead Mentor to meet with you guys or with other adult mentors off line at all. So something doesn’t add up here.

In terms of help, besides reaching out to your FIRST partner’s Senior Mentor(s), you and other adult mentors should absolutely reach out to any nearby FRC team to see if they are willing to help mentor or guide the remaining mentors on things that they need to keep up with (deadlines specifically) as well as some how-to’s.

Good luck.

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If it is a school sponsored event the school can definitely restrict who can participate. I didn’t see it as the mentors employer restricting what he can do as the school restricting who can participate in the school activity. I do not know if the restricted mentor is a school employee or not. Our school has requirements for its mentors, for instance we need to pass a Missouri Department of Health and Human Services child care provider background check otherwise we are not allowed to be mentors. I do not know why this mentor was restricted and I am not implying a background check failure, but a school can definitely decide who is allowed on school property and who leads school sponsored activities.

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Yes absolutely correct. All of our mentor does required to have pass the local district’s background check.

But there’s absolutely nothing to prevent him from interacting with adults privately on their own time. At least he can guide the other mentors as to what/when needs to get done (deadlines) and advises on where/when to purchases (vendors/shipping/etc).

Even if only remotely.

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I believe there is a labor law or regulation that hourly workers cannot volunteer for activities at employer’s site that resemble what they get paid for; employees have to get paid even if they don’t want to be and overtime rules must be applied. Likely this restriction doesn’t apply in OP’s case but OP gave us no clue as to the circumstances.

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Depends on the state; IIRC we’re both in CA so that may be correct here, but may or may not be correct in the OP’s case. And it also depends on whether the former lead mentor is a school employee, or is employed elsewhere.

I would have the new mentors reach out to the former lead mentor “offline” (read as: happen to meet in a place where students can’t be by law, hint hint) and find out what they don’t know. Things like: Senior Mentor, places to learn what the former lead mentor knows, if there’s any information like passwords that the team doesn’t already know, stuff like that.

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There are ways. For instance, I know some teachers are restricted by contract to make a “clean break” for a certain amount of time if they retire, or they risk losing benefits.

Added to that, in states that don’t require cause for termination, I think they can do just about whatever they feel like a long as it doesn’t run afoul of discrimination laws.

Beyond even that, if your employer tells you not to do something and you do it, they can find a reason to fire you. You’ll have a tough time trying to prove their real motivation.

Most people just take the easiest path and choose not to bite the hand that (almost literally) Feeds them.

These things are rarely black and white.

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In response to recent comments: If the school is suddenly banning a certain adult inexplicably from being at the school you might not want that person back…

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As others have said there are limits to what advice we can give operating only on what is said here. However, given the statement that…

…I am concerned seeing advice such as

and

I would advise that without more information, you should be very cautious about having any kind of engagement with the former lead mentor, even informally. Especially if that person is not a school employee, or is now a former school employee e.g. lost their job around the same time this decision came down.

  1. The school may have information you are not privy to and which they legally cannot share. This could include human-resources, health, YPP, or legal concerns.
  2. School administrations tend to react poorly if they feel their wishes are not being respected or they perceive that something is being done “behind their back” & potentially exposing the school to a risk. This could have serious consequences for the team’s future.
  3. Depending on circumstances, the new mentors may feel that the continued involvement of the former mentor makes it difficult to make a new start. (There is clearly a balance here between learning how to make the team run, and feeling obligated to run it “as it has always been” when a change may be necessary or advisable.)

Of course as stated above we’re all making suggestions based on incomplete knowledge of the situation, so this is just another perspective to consider. The other recommendations about talking to your Senior Mentor and engaging with other experienced teams are all spot on. (I know 6328 would be happy to offer guidance to any team who came to us in such a situation.)

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Our team has also faced this kind of situation in recent years, with many mentors departed and our long-time coach retiring last spring. We have dealt with new/shifting school rules over time & now we have a new school advisor/coach. I wish I could tell you we had it all figured out, but the truth is we’re still working on it.

It is important to clearly understand the rules & constraints the school regards as mandatory as you plan your team’s path forward, so you don’t waste energy on things that are incompatible. Sustain a positive gracious & professional relationship with the people who are making the rules. Then you’ll be in a position to ask for some tweaks to rules that are stifling, though I recommend being selective, preparing a clear strong case, and involving mentors & ideally the coach (unless they’re the target of your pitch).

I agree with others who have suggested your new school advisors & especially the lead mentor find an experienced FRC mentor or two to advise them. The demands of sustaining an FRC team, from pre-season training to the high-pressure sprint of build season into competition season is not easy for an uninitiated person to grok. Someone new might have an initial reaction that it’s way too much for a high school club (& as we know, that’s sort of the point). So external mentoring including explaining norms will help, and I’d also lean on the one returning experienced mentor you mentioned if they are willing to play advocate.

I also agree with the need to set realistic goals & prioritize, and focus the time you have on what most aligns with those things. The more you can train people up (including new mentors) prior to build season, the more you’ll be able to do. Investing time into being ready to hit the ground running at kickoff with strategy and design is something I’d specifically recommend (of course, prep’ing other disciplines and roles is also important).

I wish you all the best this season! --Chris

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First of all, major mentor turnover is one of the most challenging situations a team can face. You are already on the right track in reaching out to CD and the FRC community to ensure future success past this year.

I realize I may just have to let go of some of the hopes I have for our team this year, but I still think we’ll be able to do a lot.

If you mean on-the-field success, sure, that might take a hit. Unfortunate, but that is simply reality. With fewer resources and expertise the odds of hitting the same as previous highs is much tougher, though not impossible. I think you’ve correctly identified that this year may be mainly about setting up the future of the team for success - and while it’s awful that it’s your senior year - this is a laudable goal, and perhaps more aligned with the true ethos of FIRST than simply competing hard. None of this is to say you won’t find success on the field, just that doing so will be harder.

I’m wondering if anyone has any advice for me or my team on how to move forward and preserve as much as we can, especially on preparing new mentors for their roles.

First of all, document and create procedure as much as you can when it comes to things that have worked, so the next group can carry them on. You also get to use this as an opportunity to ditch things that haven’t been ideal and experiment a little, but make sure there is consensus and buy-in especially amongst the returning members. You do have an opportunity to see things through fresh eyes with the new mentoring team, too!

Secondly, use experience where it is needed. Good mentors will be on board with learning the peculiarities of FRC from FRC veterans - whether it be their students, fellow mentors, or FRC regional personnel. Sounds like you’ve got a good bunch. Don’t overload your one experienced mentor, and don’t be afraid to pitch in as a student leader on your team. Experience helps when it comes to things like game analysis, system design, driver training, etc. It’s less useful on technical things like programming a basic robot or CADing a part - anyone with general industry or personal experience can learn enough from the FRC documentation and their background knowledge to get by. Still, give your mentors the best setup to learn the FRCisms that exist - contact the Regional Senior Mentor, nearby teams mentors, alumni who might be interested in helping out or even just various mentors on CD. I can’t claim to be nearly as knowledgeable as some of the folks here, but I know almost all of us are willing to answer questions as best we can.

Finally, when it comes to the values, the best thing I can say is don’t be a good example. Be a GREAT one. Turn it up to 11! (No one’s perfect, though, so no worries on that front!).

There are absolutely going to be changes and tough spots - I’ve seen the team I was a student on, and mentor now, go through two wholesale mentoring staff changes. It’s not an easy thing for any team. On the basis of you asking this here, I’d wager y’all get through it just fine.

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Yes. Stay away from that person.

Something like this happened at a team I was invited to become a mentor for. I was invited at the last competition of the season, where I was introduced to the teacher/sponsor and around half a dozen well established mentors. The team had been a division alliance captain at Worlds in the past.

When I arrived at the school in September, the headmaster introduced a different teacher/sponsor and told me I would be the lead mentor. Over the summer, all the adults related to the team had “disappeared”. I was never told why. The new teacher discovered some rather questionable record keeping practices and became the only person who could perform certain functions related to operations of the team.

In a similar vein, one of the other high schools in the same school district as my current team lost the head coach of their football team for something done on camera, at a game. It was all over the local news. This is a big deal here in Texas where football is at least as important as religion.

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