My programmers and I have been doing it for years:)
At the events we spend much more time programming other robots than our own.
If we get all the teams at least rolling during autonomous then we’ve succeeded. Keep your expectations low and at the very least move them into a better position for the drivers to take over.
Great point! And think about the alliance with one really good vision-tetra-capping-capable robot and two boxes on wheels, going up against the alliance with one really good uber-long-goal-blocking-arm robot and two boxes on wheels. I can just imagine the intra-team debates that will be happening:
RedTeam1: We can cap the vision tetra on the center goal, so let’s set our robot to go there while you two block them and keep them out of our way.
RedTeam2: Yeah, but Blue knows that you can do that, so they are going to set their BigBlueArm to block the center goal. You need to go to the left side goal.
RedTeam3: But Blue knows that we know they have the BigBlueArm. And they are probably figuring that we are figuring that they will go to the center goal, and are going left instead. I bet they are already setting the BigBlueArm to go left. So we need to go to the right side middle goal.
RedTeam1: But we know that they know that we know they have the BigBlueArm. And we know that they know that we know they can block the middle goal, and will probably go to the side goals. But they don’t know that we know that they know that we know that they can block the middle goal, and will probably go to the side goals. But since we do, we should go to the middle goal.
RedTeam3: But they do know that! We partnered with BigBlueArm three matches ago against you, and noticed then that when you know that they know that you know that they know you are going to the center goal, you always go the left goal instead, and we told them that. So this match they are going to expect you to go to the middle goal. But they know that you know they expect you to go to the middle goal, and will go to the left goal instead.
RedTeam2: But hopefully they don’t know that you know that they know that you know they expect you to go to the middle goal, and will go to the left goal instead. So you should go to the right goal.
RedTeam2: But don’t you think that they are smart enough to know that you guys were one their alliance before, and know what they know? They must know that we know that they know that you know that they know that you know they expect you to go to the middle goal, and will be planning go to the left goal instead. So they know that we will probably go to the right goal. So we need to go to the center goal.
RedTeam1: Ah, but I think that you are about to fall victim to one of the classic blunders. The most famous is “Never get involved in a land war in Asia.” But only slightly less well known is this: “Never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line.” And my late Sicilian Uncle Vizzini always taught me that if you know the other guy is smart enough to know that your partner was once their partner, they must know that you know some of what they know. And since we know they must know that we know that they know that you know that they know that you know they expect you to go to the middle goal, and will be planning go to the left goal, but are planning to go to the center goal since they know that we would normally go to the right goal, we have to do something completely different. So we have to figure out what we know that they don’t know…
Meanwhile, on the Blue side of the field:
BlueTeam1: Do you think that we should say something to them?
BlueTeam2: I dunno. Probably.
BlueTeam3: Yeah, we should. I mean, the match was over two minutes ago. We scored 67 points while they sat there plotting and planning. Of course, we would have scored a lot more if BigBlueArm hadn’t fallen over during autonomous because it was running all over trying to block all three goals against red robots that weren’t even there…
BlueTeam2: So I wonder what they are still talking about?
Believe it or not, Dave latched onto exactly what I was getting at.
You gotta love the “Princess Bride” reference. By the way, didn’t the Sicilian get poisened anyway?
-Paul
I got a big kick out of Dave’s latest response to this thread. The mention of Sicilian tactics is really great. So, as long as we’re at it, how about some of the sayings of the great Chinese warrior Sun Tsu. A lot of what goes on in this FIRST Robotics competition is NOT what the robots do on the field.
So…HERE IS the complete text with these great “sound bites”:
All warfare is based on deception.
Hence, when able to attack, we must seem unable; when using our forces, we must seem inactive; when we are near, we must make the enemy believe we are far away; when far away, we must make him believe we are near.
Hold out baits to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and crush him.
If he is secure at all points, be prepared for him, If he is in superior strength, evade him.
If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.
If he is taking his ease, give him no rest. If his forces are united, separate them.
Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.
These military devices, leading to victory, must not be divulged beforehand
These military devices, leading to victory, must not be divulged beforehand
Oops.
I agree with dhitchco.
I’ve been think for a while that the key to strategy in this game is to sandbag. Set the field up and then turn a couple rows right at the end.
This game is closer to Othello than Tic-tac-toe.
I had that thought too. I’ve never been very good at Othello. 
This game is so bloody fantastic because it’s like that british tick-tac-toe variant where you can invert X’s to O’s. Martin Gardner mentions it in his “Hexaflexagon” book…
Dave- You have too much time on your hands. (Yes, I got a kick out of it - thanks!)
Regarding blocking blockers: Of course, you gotta figure that the other team just might quite possibly do the same thing as you and send out some blocking 'bots, which would have to get there quickly… say in a few seconds… using the supplied drive train in the kit… (2 * 10 ft/s = SMASH!) and we are back where we started.
Have I got this wrong? Perhaps all of the “tic-tac-toe/othello” analogies a bit off. Perhaps the game we should be looking at (with heavy blockers and more fragile scorers) is… football?
-Mr. Van
yes. well it is quiet easier to stop someone from capping more than it is to actually cap. If you take into consideration that for autonomous the robots will first have to find the tetras then go over to them and cap them. All the robots that are going to stop to the capping robots are going to do is just get into the field of view of the robot and the robot won’t be able to find the vision tetra.
Mr. Van, you let the darn cat out of the bag! I have been preaching to my team that this game is more like footbal than anything else. 3 robots working as a team will be unstopable!!
Look at all the words people are writing: shoot the gaps, hit the holes, blocker bots … This game will strategically be played like football (American footbal, that is …)
-Paul
Not to disrupt this coversation of what other games this is like…
FIRST said that will apply in all modes.
Q: If a team moves to the opposite end of the field in autonomous mode and starts “zooming” back and forth across the field, obviously to disrupt opposing robot’s autonomous mode, can they be DQ’d for high speed ramming per <G25>?
A: <G25> applies in all modes. If your robot is traveling at high speed during autonomous mode and rams another robot, it is very possible that you would be disqualified, although the decision will depend on the particular situation and is at the discretion of the head referee.
I wish some one would build a beef bot that could and would cap another opposing robot 
that would be a kicker 300lb. robot flying around 10ft. in the air wheels spinning arm flailing! All of a sudden its capped!
funny that people are starting to compare this year’s competition to regular games… Personally, my team and I thought the game held a striking resemblence to the Onslaught mode of Unreal Tournament 2k4. Controlling goals/“power nodes”, multiple vehicles causing havoc, and the linear bonus point system reminds me of onslaught. Is it just me? Or maybe I’m just suffering from Unreal on the brain.
This is for anyone going to the Pacific Northwest Regional in Portland. Dont screw with our bot in autonomous. I writing the program, and if I happen to be driving at the time I would love to “accidentally” tip someones bot out of the arena.
Oops that wouldnt be gracious professionalism. But really, I do think that rather than just trying to keep other peoples hard work from working maybe you should work hard too and try to make yours work better!
I got a question though. The rules say you cannot put something under another bot and lift, but is having a wedge shaped thing and sticking it under their bot without lifting in violation of that rule? Nothing actually goes up except their bot but it seems like it should be against the rules if lifting is.
And yeah I was just kidding at the beginning there. I personally think that you should try to be better at being positive, rather than not as good at being negative. Flipping someones bot out of the arena definetly qualifies as being negative, and I would hope you would get DQed for it, unless it was obviously an accident.
I agree it does resemble Onslaught now that I think about it. Onslaught is my favorite mode to play but I really kinda suck at it, I hope this is not an indication of how my team will play this years game.
You can have a wedge on your bot as long as it does not have the sole purpose of fliping another robot. and if the refs see that is all the wedge, or any other part, do then the team will be DQ’d till they get rid of the part in question.