Am I the only person out in the Community of FIRST that thinks the constraints of Tetrix (FTC kit) to build the mini bot is UNFAIR!
Up until this year Michigan was discouraged from FTC as FIRST was scared that they would loose FRC Growth due to costs. Now the winds have changed and we are asked to do something that is not possible. Not possible because:
Many of us do not have $400.00 for a basic kit + all the extra stuff that will make the amount higher…
No kits are available for purchase. This is the BIG one!!!
If FIRST is pushing FTC you would think that they would have made sure that there was a stock for kits… after all there are MANY more FRC teams than FTC teams - especially in Michigan.
I do get that FIRST is trying to compete with VEX - but at our expense and stress level.
I definitely second this, as my team is also in a place without many FTC teams, and we just don’t have the access to the kit! That’s a pretty steep investment to ask of any team, and to force it on some teams simply because they are inconveniently located in relation to FTC teams is quite honestly unfair.
I have to say that I think that their idea was a good one, but their execution was poor. If you are unable to acquire one, due to mistakes on their part, that is truly unfair. You would think that if they knew these kind of things were coming, surplus stock would be prepared. I suppose you could do exactly what they want you to do, find the closest FTC team, and hope that they are generous. Sorry for the predicament this has put you and others in, good luck!
Mike I couldn’t agree more. Not only is the restriction ridiculous and the availability even worse.
Teams who aren’t competing until week 2 might as well just wait and see what everyone else did, because with update #1 there is no point in innovation.
I understand/like the idea of FTC teams working with FRC teams, but I agree that the execution is very, very poor! I feel so bad for any teams without access to FTC kits!
I do agree that this is a bit “limiting” but I think you also have to look at it from FIRST’s point of view, the biggest thing being damage to their sensors. If one of these bots shoots up in under a second, I think that could do some significant damage to a sensor.
I too agree, with no teams around, and nearly no budget there is no way we will be able to make a mini bot out of FTC parts, though our team would truly love to make one.
With the limited resources allowed, I’d be surprised to see a minibot that was able to do significant damage, even with the old rule set. The plates are designed to take at least 4-5 Newtons I’d bet even more. Knowing FIRST, these things will be made durable anyways, considering how much wear and tear it will receive at a regional event. I think it’s A, a safety issue and B, a uniformity and regulation issue.
You’re not quite stuck. Motors can be had for $30 per, and appear to be in stock on LEGO Education Store. We did the math Saturday and came up with a figure of around $200 if you have an NXT brick, including two motors, a battery, and the motor controller. Sheet aluminum, lexan, and rivets are all legal too, which practically every FRC team should be able to use.
While many aspects of minibots are frustrating to me, this one doesn’t seem so bad.
Also, although I agree with the minibot change as a safety concern, I am still displeased with the execution of the minibot idea. Along with being unfair to teams without FTC teams near them, it changes the dynamic of the minibot race. Instead of “Whose unique minibot can get to the top first?” it becomes “Whose robot can get to the tower and have their drivers press a button with 10 seconds left in order to get basically the same minibot as everyone else to start climbing first?”
I hope that FIRST isn’t trying to compete with the programs that use Vex equipment. That mindset has been thoughtfully and resoundingly discouraged by more than enough well-respected STEM Robotics leaders within and outside of FIRST; and it certainly wouldn’t earn anyone involved any coopertition points.
We are a FLL, VEX and FRC organization. IMO, this is an effort to boost a floundering FTC program and drive up sales to keep supplier order quantities up.
We have a large VEX group of middle schoolers that would love to build us a mini-bot. And all the parts are in the building.
I think it is very obvious that the inclusion of FTC parts is a direct shot at the massive growth VEX has seen over the last couple years, and FTC’s inability to gain the same traction. Its pretty disappointing that they are limiting the design challenge of the end game to force FTC onto FRC teams mainly for political reasons. As powerful of a program as FIRST is for inspiring students, playing politics like this sours my view of the organization.
I can tell you here in Canada there are many times more VEX teams then FTC teams…
I really do not like the adjustment of the Minibot rules in Team Update #1. Honestly, just when I thought FIRST had finally created an FRC game without any near universally-hated rules, they went ahead and made one in TM 1.
We were an early adopter of the FIRST Vex Challenge, and subsequently bought a lot of Vex parts. When FIRST pulled the rug out from underneath us and switched from Vex to Tetrix, we stayed with our investment and stopped competing in the then renamed FTC and started doing VRC. There was no reason to drop our large-investment in Vex to stick with the FIRST brand name. If FIRST hadn’t dropped Vex, our team would definitely still be involved with FVC/FTC, and I’m sure they wouldn’t be having any issues trying to grow the program.
We were planning on using a stored-energy (via surgical tubing) Minibot launcher to avoid having to buy any FTC parts other than those we got from FIRST Choice. We even started prototyping ideas, and our first prototype showed much promise with times faster than the theoretical minimum time for ascent powered by FTC motors. Then TM #1 ruins all of that, and forces a large unplanned expense onto our build season (We have the budget to absorb it, but are still irate we’re being coerced to buy something that otherwise is not needed for our goals of inspiring students).
And as a result of this update forcing all Minibots to be propelled exactly the same (good bye innovative ideas and inspiration, hello clone bots), I expect ~90% of Minibot teams to reach the trigger within 0.25 sec of each other. Now the Minibot bonuses will literally be decided each match by statistical luck more than anything else.
The minibot component is almost completely taken out of the minibot race, it becomes a race of who can deploy their minibot faster. Which I’m sure is not what FIRST intended.
This exactly. I was very much looking forward to all the neat methods of mechanical energy storage teams were going to use to power their minibots.
It seems like a little bit of a snub to not allow Tetrix components, but I suppose I understand the logic. Either you use their components, or you build your own. Requiring teams to use the the FTC controllers and not providing them to every team seems rather silly to me…
(This is the case correct – every team is not guaranteed the FTC stuff with their kit?)
The real question is, just how many VEX stickers will Team IFI plaster on their Tetrix minibots?
Did I miss something or did you just say we can use the Lego NXT brick? Our school has tons of those.
EDIT: Dumb question. I never did anything with FTC though, is that really what they use to control their robots?!?!
Im thinking of the big brick with 3 inputs and 3 outputs and the display, I think it comes with lego mindstorms.
