[moderated]: Worst Call Ever and Congratulations from San Jose

FIRST General Forum
#41

This statement couldn’t be any more true. I can’t count how many times Team 100 has needed a part and turned to 254, or had to use their mobile shop, among other things. Anytime anybody needs anything, Team 254 will be there doinhg their best to help. You don’t win Nation Chairmans Award for no reason.

One instance in particular stands out to me. In 2004 we went into the last week of build with a robot that was over 30 lbs overweight. When 254 found out, a team member personally called me and offered for us to come down and setup shop in their lab for the last week, so that we could work together to do whatever we could to get underweight. You wouldn’t expect that from most people, but that’s ordinary for the Cheesy Poofs.

Like Bill, when I started my FIRST career, I too looked at the Cheesy Poofs as being “handed everything” and it was unfair, they couldn’t possibly have done any of that themselves, etc, etc.

I have to say, now that I actually know what FIRST is about (not the robot folks, it’s just a means to an end) I’m ashamed I ever acted like I did. I’m good friends with members of 254, and I have an insight into what really goes on, rather that what I convinced myself, out of ignorance, was happening.

This anecdote relates specificaly to 254, but the same goes for every team out there. You cannot accuse them OF A SINGLE THING until you’ve been on that team and know how it works, or been around them a whole heck of a lot. As I’ve repeatedly said, even if they did have all engineers build it, who cares? if the students are being inspired (and they clearly are) who are you to tell them how to run their program?

If everyone who spent their time criticizing 254 and other successful teams spent half as much effort trying to improve their own, and strive for the goals that the Poofs do, FIRST would be a much better place.

#42

At the Sacramento Regional this year our pits were right next to the Cheesy Poofs, being on drive team, I spent most of my time in our pits, but it was interesting to me to notice that their pits were frequently mostly empty. They weren’t there because they were helping out other teams. They did not seem stuck-up to me, they had one small, modest table with some old awards on it. For all that I’d heard about the Cheesy Poofs, they seemed like a pretty nice team to me. I remember last year all the jokes that our teams had about the announcer being dyslexic (245 vs 254). One quick side comment that I’d like to throw out is if you really want to “stick it to them”, beat them on the field, not off of it. To quote lots of people from the legendary “engineering bots” threads, “sure, we get tired of losing to the same teams year after year, but, when you finally beat them, it feels great”. I know that for my team, beating the Cheesy Poofs did not have the same significance as it did for our partners, 766 and 1072, but we worked hard to do it, and there’s no denying it, it felt great.

#43

Its sad that there are so many people who hold animosity towards Team 254. They are a great team who have worked hard over the years to develop into one of the best teams in the country. NASA didn’t show up at Bellarmine one day and drop a team off at their front door as some would like you to think.

To me, its obvious why so many people bash Team 254: jealousy. They are jealous of the successes that Team 254 has enjoyed and they resent the fact that their team has not achieved similar success. So to vent their frustrations, they hide behind a computer screen and log on to an internet forum to take cheap shots (and thats what they are) at an upstanding group of individuals.

I attend a school in Phoenix that is very similar to Bellarmine. In fact, some of our teachers and members of our administration at one time taught at Bellarmine. I know the people at Bellarmine are hard-working and honest who like to win fair and succeed on an even playing field. They would not manipulate a situation to win a regional because that would put a mark on the win. I certainly would not want to win that way.

I did not witness the situation described by ducttapejason. I have however been involved in more than my fair share of bad calls and I did not immediately run to my nearest computer and throw baseless accusations at fellow FIRST teams and FIRST officials. Jason, you should be ashamed.

#44

I think that what gets people is not just that Bellarmine is very successful, but they are a very affluent school compared to some other high schools. Sure, 254 has a bigger budget than a lot of other teams, and that makes it easy to knock them as a “engineered, NASA poster-child” team, but when it boils down to it, we’ve all simply been outclassed and outplayed. Even if 254 was running a budget equal to the smallest team in FIRST, they’d be able to pull off a quality robot. I’m sure their large budget helps them widen the already formidible gap in quality of their team to most others, but it isn’t the deciding factor. These guys are simply that good, and the criticism leveled at them always will go hand in hand with success. Keep it up guys!

#45

71 is not a well funded team with their robot. They work incrdibly hard at raising money. A very large portion of their money goes to transporting their enormous not to mention cool team. Thy may have been in the past, but they have had a few issues. Team 71 has to fight as hard as anyone for their money.

I have nothing against team 254 and this segmnt of this post is not for them and I have no clue about their robot/organization except for the fact that thy won the National Chairmans Award last year.

But although FIRST is for inspiring kids to become engineers and for learning how to become a good individual, the competition is still a portion of this organization.

I just feel that the teams should not have other people fixing their robots. They built it, they should fix it. I understan that they will help others with their robot if asked, but shouldn’t it be the students first responsibility to try it themselves. FIRST is a learning opportunity. I understand if there is a problem that a student has no idea on how to fix, but atleast they should be there to watch and learn about how to do it.

Cheesy Poofs you guys are great. All your outreach is amazing.

Thr is a reason they have all their money and whatnot. I am basing this off of things I have read in this thread (that rhymed). They had to work for it just like everyone else works for theirs. They were picked for their sponsorship. There is reason for this and it is because they are a great team who deserves what ever they have.

#46

I think that almost every team has experienced what it feels to loose an important match because of a penalty. This is especially true in this year’s game where penalties have played a very important role. I know that our team has experienced this. At BAE this year, there were quite a few penalties. In our last qualifying match a 30 point penalty was called against our team because we touched a robot in the human player loading zone. Our robot had been tipped over at this point and we were attempting to self-right, which we did eventually accomplish. Unfortunately, during our attempts to self-right, we apparently touched a robot in the loading zone. The referees then called a 30 point penalty against us causing us to loose the match and dropping us down to 7th seed. No one on our team saw this penalty, but we were all very focused on our robot. I personally (and most of the team members that I have discussed this with) are sure that the penalty did indeed happen. We are sure of this simply because the penalty was called and we trust the refs to do their job.
As for the Cheesy Poofs supposedly having everything handed to them, I doubt that is true. I have not had that much personal experience with them, but I have heard many positive things about them. We are lucky enough to be a chairmans award team, so we get to go to nationals every year, and we have a very good sponsor (Hamilton Sundstrand) and mentors who donate unbelievable amounts of time. These are things that a great many teams do not get. However no amount of funding, school support, and helpful mentors can “just hand” a team dedicated team members who are willing to work hard for not only their own team but others as well. Nobody can “just hand them” team spirit and Gracious Professionalism. These are things that the Cheesy Poofs certainly seem to have. (They do not award the National Chairmans Award lightly)

#47

It is difficult to judge a team, if you have never seen how they work. Many of the comments on the thread state this, and it is true. There is always some doubt when the only people that can say what goes on in the 254 shop are the people that work their.

That is why I personally wanted to go see them at their NASA workshop, to see how they work, why their team is so successful. I met the 254 guys there about a month ago (mid april) and checked out a day of their world. It was a few days before nationals, and they were busy, playing practice rounds on their spare robot, packing the crate, charging batteries, etc. However, how many NASA guys were there? Three, and they are all college students. Just as Bill Gold said in an earlier post, 254 is guided by the advice of three college students, Al, EJ, and Bill himself. In no way is anything given to them, in no way is their build season easy. These three mentors work tirelessly day and night, working with the students to make them the team that they are. I went there trying to steal some knowledge for myself: what can I do to beat them? As I left that night, all I was thinking is: how can I be more like them?

I truly appreciate the fact that people from 254 let me come over and see how they work. I hope people realize that Bellermine Robotics is a SELF MADE team. They have, on their walls, pinned up all the awards banners they have won over the years. They have a lot of them, and I feel that they fully deserve every one.