The autonomous mode for this year’s game is rather disappointing as it stands right now. Only a handful of teams at the regional level can complete the difficult task of scoring a Keeper, and most just sit there with out even trying. However, there is one last chance for Autonomous mode to improve from worthless and boring to game-breaking, as all the best teams meet on the Georgia Dome floor. Some are already masters. Others have worked things out and are ready for another shot. The potential for multiple keepers is much higher than the regionals.
So the the question is:
What do you think will be the highest number of Keepers scored in a single match at The Big Show? And how many will each alliance score?
Options are:
6 KEEPERS OMG! : All 6 robots, in moment of Autonomous Poetry, place their Keepers on the rack. :] 5 KEEPERS! : One alliance places 2 Keepers, only to be upstaged by the other alliance placing 3! 4 Keepers (3 for single alliance) : One alliance places 3 Keepers, the other places 1. 4 Keepers (2 per alliance) : Each alliance places 2 Keepers. This is a good match already. 3 Keepers (3 for single alliance) : One alliance hits the Trifecta, the other is deep in the hole to start. 3 Keepers (2 for single alliance) : One alliance places 2 Keepers, the other places 1. 2 Keepers (2 for single alliance) : One alliance places 2 Keepers, the other is shutout. 2 Keepers (1 per alliance) : Each alliance places a Keeper. 1 Keeper : A single keeper is scored. 0 Keepers : Keepers suddenly morph into Vision Tetras :ahh: . No one is able to score them.
I am not sure what the current record is (post if you do). I think it is 2 Keepers (2 for single alliance). I know 1114 and 67 (who happen to both be in Curie), scored 2 at GLR.
Post about the multiple keeper matches you see during the Championship.
Also, Which do you think would be cooler to see:
4 Keepers scored (2 per alliance) or 3 Keepers scored for a single alliance?
I like the latter.
I believe that you will see four keepers at two keepers per alliance. You just do not have enough real estate out there to have one alliance get three keepers without running into eachother, the magic of the combinaiton of 1114 and 67 at GLR placing on the same column will be hard to duplicate. Some alliances will try to place three and may by chance, it will not be reliable and will they want to chance getting three when they know that thier chances of getting two is all most a given? Trying for three could result in none of the three scoring. Will the Championship be the play ground where placing keepers will finally gets its’ due? You will probably see defensive auton. That’s when three robots trying to score keepers will come into play with one robot being blocked by defense and the other two robots being free to place keepers. If you know that your opposing alliance has a defensive auton, send out all three just to see what will happen. Given the quality of robots that will be seen at the Championship, will being able to place keepers reliably or a good defensive auton be the characteristics that will make or break it for alliance captains’ selections? Defense will rule the day after lunch on Saturday and any alliance that can get four unanswered points in auton will have a sizeable advantage over their opponents. If I have to chose between two keepers per alliance or an alliance getting three keepers, no doubt about it, three keepers by one alliance would be right up there with six robots hanging, if you know what I mean.
At some point, we’re going to see a 2 keeper vs. 3 keeper match. It may only happen once the whole competition, but it will happen once. And the alliance that scores the 3 keepers won’t be doing it in a vertical column of 3 (in fact, don’t expect all 3 to even be in a row).
I hope we see some autonomous surprises at the Championship. Obviously I’d like to see more scoring in general in auton, but it’s time we graduated from just scoring on the leg in front of us.
I also predict that in some match during the competition, one robot will score 2 rings by themselves in autonomous (either a ringer and keeper or 2 keepers). I hope it’s us, but I’d also like to see one of the teams who’s mastered single scoring pull this off.
That would be really incredible, as the only ringers available to an alliance in autonomous are on the far side of the field! Perhaps a robot could have a keeper snagged by a spider leg as it drives to the opposing alliance’s player station wall. But picking up a ringer, turning around and hanging it on the rack afterwards seems like a pretty tall order.
Another big advantage to scoring multiple keepers for your alliance is those keepers are addition tubes that you wouldn’t have otherwise. If you have 3 good scorers, it is easy to run out of ammo with only 9 human player Ringers.
Not sure thats going to happen because it depends too much on other robots (partners and/or opponents) to score multiple yourself. However, if you had plenty of time to work on coordinating autonomous with partners you might be able to pull something like this off:
You start with a keeper in your gripper and drive forward towards the rack
Your partner (could even be a ramp bot) starts with a keeper in front of them and pushes it straight forward a set distance.
You score the keeper and turn around to locate your partner’s keeper using camera (probably better on red keepers), UltraSonic, IR, and/or a positional coordinate system.
You grab their keeper turn around and score again.
Is it difficult? Very, but I think it could be done with enough practice and tweaking.
As soon as we get single keeper scoring working my intention is to get this to happen, and I believe we’ve got the sensors in place to do it. My idea is similar to your method, just with a different keeper starting position and no need for the 2nd robot to move at all.
Anyone else want to take up this challenge?
On a side note, I’m still strongly considering going for a far ringer as well, but my best estimates say it will still take 17.5 seconds, just a little too long.
If there were a match where 6 ringers were scored in Automode, i would seriously freak out. That would be the way FIRST is supposed to be. I highly doubt it will happen, because there is almost never going to be 6 offense robots on the field
I’ve been wondering that myself. I made the poll right away with the initial post. Only the Portal that doesn’t show the “Poll:”. When you view it in the Championship Event forum it has “Poll:” and the pic. I don’t know it is only the 16th thread I’ve started (second poll).
It would take a LOT of practice and tweaking to get that done. I don’t think it’s even worth attempting over a max of a 3 day time frame. It would take an entire 6 weeks build season to even get a good attempt at that, in my opinion.
We have a mode that would allow a single alliance to score 3 ringers…
potentially…
anyways, i expect that the maximum we will see is 4, with 2 per alliance. Given that there are 4 lights, and scoring (using a camera) on a non-lit column would be near impossible, it only seems right
As much as I would’ve liked to see an alliance score multiple keepers, it didn’t happen in any of our matches at UTC. Here’s a quick breakdown of our autonomous modes:
QF 1: We attempt to score, but the keeper fell before we reached the rack.
QF 16: Both 237 and 25 attempt to score their keepers and miss.
QF 22: 25, 716, 1124 all miss.
QF 27: We’re the only ones to attempt to score the keeper, miss, and get caught up in the rack.
QF 34: Both us and 1124 just nearly miss scoring the keepers.
QF 46: We slam into the rack and somehow score.
QF 49: We don’t run auto (didn’t have time between matches to fix the error), 1089 misses their keeper.
QF 64: 1124 and us both score.
QF 73: Both team 230 and us miss.
QF 1-1: We’re the only ones with a keeper and miss.
QF 1-2: Keeper nearly falls onto the bottom row.
SF 1-1: We scored, 236 had a failed attempt
SF 1-2: 236 scored, we missed.
F-1: Both us and 1124 miss.
To answer the thread’s original question though, I believe that at Championships, there will be multiple occasions where two keepers are scored, with it occurring within the same alliance being a bit less likely. I predict that the most that will be seen will be four keepers, two from each alliance.
Within Galileo, our division, robots with working autonomous modes (or at least ones that attempt to score) that I know of include us, 79, 116, 229, 237, 326, 341, 540, 1126, 1208, 1425, 1680, 1730, 1902, and 2056, so the potential to score multiple keepers is definitely there.
I would say the most you could expect to see is 2 total per match. After that, the rack would probably be shakeing too much (between robots who just scored being stuck or robots intentionally shakeing it), to be able to score another. The most I could conceivably see, would be 3, and thats pushing it.
Was anyone keeping tabs on keepers scored, and know the maximum scored in a single match at the Championships?
Throughout our qualification matches on Galileo, we scored three keepers out of seven. The closest that one of our alliances got to scoring two consecutive keepers was with SparX (1126) during match 90. 1126’s would have went on (it was right over the stinger and the leg) but as they pulled back, one of the prongs on their end effector knocked it off.
I don’t know it is only the 16th thread I’ve started (second poll).