I knid of developed my own theory in web design and I was wondering what everyone thinks about it. I call it “the theory of IA”. I typed a sort of report about it, not spell checked or anything. Let me know what you think and if you agree with it.
I had the page on my website, but the server is down or something so I made a free website. Try to get it from that.
Thanks.
p.s. You may want to open the txt in another program using word wrap.
*Originally posted by robot180 *
I typed a sort of report about it, not spell checked or anything.
Its really funny how in a “paper” about initial appearances, you admitted that you didn’t spell check. If it wasn’t worth the effort of hitting spell check (FFS, even netscape composer comes with spellcheck!) why should it be worth my time to read?
Also: yahoo doesn’t have great use of space. There are waaaay too many links there that make it really hard to get where I want to go.
Google does things well, the white space leads your eye toward just typing in the search box. Not only that, but unlike yahoo, it doesn’t have big columns of links. Personally anything past 4-5 links makes it really hard to find a particular item.
Don’t leave white space.
Bad suggestion. White space is GOOD. It improves your readability alot. Why do you think binder paper comes with margins? White space is useful for guiding the eye toward certain things. Even more, white space is useful because without it, your page looks cramped!
Personally I will work with sites that give me a simple obvious way to navigate to information I want. If the information is on the first page, thats nice, but I better not have to dig for it. If its past 3 steps in, I just go back to google. reading reading So yah, I agree with B and C (two out of three!) Except the use of hyperbole is starting to grate. 100 item list is bad. 20 item list is still pretty bad. 10 item list is STILL bad. See, the difference between 10 and 100 seems pretty big, but when it comes to a big long strip of links, 10 is practically as bad as 100. (maybe its just me, everytime I go to yahoo, I can’t find the yahoo games link. I always look around for like 30 seconds, then give up and resort to type-ahead-find in firebird…)
2a-d I mostly agree with. White is really boring though. Offwhite are nice. The main thing is to have a good contrast and that patterns/backgrounds are not overpowering. Look at say www.zeldman.com, check out the light orangey background. Its slight enough that you wouldn’t notice it all that much when reading, but gives the site a complete, more well rounded feel. (This actually sort of reminds me of something, this may be where my definition of whitespae and yours differs. When I say whitespace, I mean spots without TEXT.) The orange makes the page look more complete overall, minimizing the emptiness that may have been caused by the blank area on the right, while by not having content there, the design stays away from looking too “busy”. http://unraveled.com/ is another example of a site with a background. The background is VERY low-key, but keeps the large blank spaces from looking TOO blank.
totally agree with the stuff in 3. Most movement/blinking/etc is very distracting, and drives me utterly nuts.
Don’t make columns in tables? please? There are so many ways to do columns in CSS/semantic markup that its really a shame not to!
Thanks for that feedback.
I would like to remind you, not saying that you forgot, I said towards the end that there is always an exception to every rule. I agree that Google made a good decision to leave lots of white space to direct your attention to the search box. Again, that is an example of an exception to the rule. I used Google as an example because it is the only website I know that has that much white space. By white space, I mean blank area with no objects.
That also proves my thought on why not to use white space, if you want the user to get a good initial thought of your overall website’s look. On Google, that is what they want to do, direct your focus to the center of the page, so they use white space.
I want to add something that I forgot to mention. Using themes, best to use an external style sheet, will cause the person to not change their feeling from the initial appearance every time they switch pages. That is an actual explaination of why it makes a website look better when using a common theme on every page.
I just want to say i completely agree with you Jon about the IA lecture and i think it really helped my team because ya’ll made tommy relize he is not the ultimate so he changed some things and as for your lecture spelling, there were very few words misspelled so if you got summat up your friggin shorts bout bad spellin well i belive you can just get over it and besides you should not worry about the spelling of and article all you should worry about is whether it is worth rembering and i definatly belive this article is worth rembering.
From what I can gather Argoth, you are annoyed that I commented on his spelling? Its not hard to spell/speak english “properly”. It makes everyone’s lives much easier if you do though. I had to reread your post a few times because I had no idea what you were saying. If you had taken the time to spell correctly, and present yourself in a clear manner, we wouldn’t even be talking about this. Does it take me any extra time to spell correctly, and replace my u’s with you? Not really. I have yet to see somebody who typed slowly enough that typing an extra TWO letters made the difference.
Its ironic though isn’t it? In an article about initial impressions, he didn’t even bother to run spell check. I see misspelled words, and I immediately think unprofessional. Alot of programs come with spell check, it is not a huge thing to ask that he spell checking his “article”. And its just a nicety, if you want me to take my time to read it, please make take the time to proofread and make sure spelling/grammar is good?
I know, I read the exceptions page. I just wanted clarifications on points. Incidentally, by labeling google’s use of whitespace as “excessive” you rule out its use as an exception! (Because exceptions will not be google. Google is your example. :P)
I want to add something that I forgot to mention. Using themes, best to use an external style sheet, will cause the person to not change their feeling from the initial appearance every time they switch pages. That is an actual explaination of why it makes a website look better when using a common theme on every page.
Not quite sure what you are saying? (Not a native english speaker)
I don’t think that initial appearance really has much at all to do with how useful, navigable, or popular a website is or can become.
Content is of the utmost importance, superceded only by access to that content. User interface design is what’s really important, not the way a site looks. Though, with that said, the initial impression one gets from a site my affect how long they stay there.
Yahoo! and Google are exemplar in their unique niches – but remember that they have different purposes. Yahoo! is a web portal with many dozens of varied features, one of which is a search engine. In that case, having many links on the home page makes accessing the different parts of the site easier. The user interface design is intuitive because it immediately lets the user see if what they’re looking for is available to them and moreso, that it facilitates easily returning to the site and being able to get to what you need with a single click.
Google, on the other hand, is nothing more than a search engine, really. For their purposes, there’s very little else that the site does and so there’s no need for an excess of links cluttering their main page. It works well for what it was meant to do and that’s what’s most important.
You can design the most visually appealing website on the 'net, but if it’s difficult to use or lacks consistent navigation, it won’t mean anything.
As an aside – proper spelling and grammar is important, here and elsewhere. It reflects poorly upon you and your team if you don’t take the time to proofread the things you’ve written for spelling, content and clarity. What use is having the most amazing ideas ever conceived if you lack the ability to communicate them to other people? Where I’m concerned, people that don’t make the extra effort to spell something correctly, run spellcheck, search before posting, etc., are rude and lazy and will rarely get as much of my attention as someone who works at presenting themselves in an intelligent, professional manner.
*Originally posted by Argoth *
**I just want to say i completely agree with you Jon about the IA lecture and i think it really helped my team because ya’ll made tommy relize he is not the ultimate so he changed some things and as for your lecture spelling, there were very few words misspelled so if you got summat up your friggin shorts bout bad spellin well i belive you can just get over it and besides you should not worry about the spelling of and article all you should worry about is whether it is worth rembering and i definatly belive this article is worth rembering. **
One of the greatest downfalls about the Internet is that it has given people an air of confident invincibility in their illiteracy.
The simple fact that you can type and use spell-check in a Word document is no excuse to get lazy on a messageboard and misspell everything.
Do you realize that you were just out-argued in a fully literate manner by HFWang who is, by his own admission, not a native speaker of the English tongue?
I am not able to read all of the article at this present time, unfortunately. However, I do disagree with some of your observations, especially about the uncoolness of Google. I am a strong believer in form following function. Google’s search engine is a clear example of that.
–Petey
It looks like this thread is splitting itself right down the middle, between two conversations.
CONVO. 1
I am changing some of the things that I said in the article and I want to change them before I post it anywhere else. That includes some of the things about Google. Again, I used Google as an example of what a page would look like if it had too much white space. I later added that they had good reason for doing so. This also further provides the idea because what is the purpose for having the white space? To direct your attention to the search box, right? Why did I say not to use white space? Because it focuses the user’s attention on a specific part of the screen and not on the entire web page as a whole. Also, there are always exceptions, like when you are purposely trying to direct attention to a specific part of the screen, leaving white space is good. By the way, white space, in this context, doesn’t have to be white; it can be any color.
I will clarify what I meant by the addition of the themes in just a second, since someone brought up a great point! Yes, I agree that content, navigation, etc. are important parts of web design as well, however, this whole theory only applies to the first few seconds that the page is loaded in, with the exception of the thing about themes. I said that IA doesn’t always determine the feeling that someone would get about your website. For example, someone can get a very bad feeling, but continue using the website. They may later decide that it has everything that they need and be the best site ever, but without that great IA, some users may not use the website because they got a negative feeling and found a better website with the same information and resources.
Please remember that this report, theory, whatever, is relating to how the human brain reacts to websites. I know that sometimes you don’t care or sometimes there is no way around it, or that people use it anyways, but I am just trying to find a reason that intro videos tend to detract from the website, as well as, bright backgrounds and crazy fonts. That is why Google can get away with leaving the blank space, because everyone uses it anyways, since they already know that it is useful and works really well. They don’t care about the IA because they know that everyone else uses it and it works for them.
Now I will clarify the themes idea. A user will generally get a new feeling from IA every time there is a major change, kind of like a voice-activated microphone. (It records when there is a major change in sound.) If the transition between two pages is smooth and mild, they won’t change their feeling. If you click a link and the screen changes drastically, you will change your feeling from the IA. This can explain why it is good to use a common theme on all of the pages on your website. If the person had a positive feeling, they click on a link, it takes them to the worst example of proper IA, and it has a common theme with the previous page, they won’t change their feeling about the website, unless of course the content and navigation is so bad they change it anyways. This can also work against you; if the person gets a negative feeling and the next page is a lot better, and has a common theme. They can carry their negative feeling straight through.
CONVO. 2
The other conversation is about the spelling/grammer issue. I will take the time to actually spell check this post using this Chiefdelphi spell check program, which I never really noticed. My little report there was meant to be an informal report with a purpose to get some opinions from some other web designers, and great web designers I might add. I was actually posting it for one person, but I thought I might ask all of you. Once I get some more feedback, I might rewrite it and spell check.
Here’s a thought. When you go to a party, (an older people’s party where they just eat and talk and stuff) does everyone there talk with proper grammer? Usually not; and how about at meals in a restaurant with their employers and stuff? Not really, unless they are interviewing. Does that mean that those ideas are not worth listening to? Don’t forget that some of the greatest ideas ever conceived, were developed during a meal in a restaurant. I mean, where do you think the idea of the light bulb was thought up, in Thomas Edison’s lab? No, in the Wendy’s down the street the night before. (that was a joke)
Now I understand where you are all coming from, but I just had to mention that.
Oops! I just posted that and forgot to spell check. I am editing it now to do that.