Nationals & Rookies

Competition Championship Event
1

So here I post a question looking for some insight or a response in regards to something that’s been bothering a bunch of my friends. After the regionals, many rookie teams had their hearts set on going to Nationals. One such team, whom we mentor, Team 1923, raised the money necessary to pay for registration and travel, but faced just one problem.

Despite everyone’s best efforts to talk to people at FIRST, Rookies won’t be allowed to compete at Nationals. My question is…why? This year our team alone has qualified for 5 or so spots for Nationals, and of course we need only one, so why then wouldn’t we be allowed to ‘donate’ these spots to rookie teams.

The way I see it, if a rookie team can afford it, what better way to get them 'super-involved in FIRST and have them get the overall FIRST experience?

edit
I meant rookie teams who haven’t otherwise so qualified through winning a regional, etc.

2

maybe i’m a little biased, as a member of 1923, but i think neil’s prefectly correct.

what better way to get us involved further?

3

I believe the point of this is to try and keep the competition level as high as possible and to keep the numbers down. By having teams qualify for the nationals (all teams not just rookies) it keeps the level of competition at its highest, and keeps the numbers at a more reasonable level.

4

The rookie All-Star Award does carry Championship eligibility. I think the idea is to get only the All-Star Class of rookies to go to Championship.

Maybe there should be a Tier 0 for rookie teams. They wouldn’t take the spot of any veteran team that wanted to go but they still would be allowed to register.

5

Maybe there should be a Tier 0 for rookie teams. They wouldn’t take the spot of any veteran team that wanted to go but they still would be allowed to register.

I agree. If there are an abundance of spots available, why not let the rookie teams register?

6

I’m pretty sure that registration opened up to all teams in FIRST who were willing to pay, at some point back in November or so.

7

Important: 2006 Rookies are not eligible to attend the Championship via Open Registration but must qualify to attend per the Merit Based criteria set forth above.

I copied this from here on the FIRST website.

8

So I guess in 1923’s case:

  • Save the money so the team can register for Atlanta next year, or
  • Team members volunteer in Atlanta or attend the FIRST Robotics Conferences
9

Please recall that the “Tier” system was not set up to allow all teams to have open registration. Rather, it was to ensure that each team would have a chance at going to the Championships at least once every 4 years, meaning that a student that participated all through HS would be able to go.

Until last year and this year, open registration seldom reached Tier 1. Alliances of 3 opened up a lot more spots at the Championship. In addition many teams’ sponsors cut back due to necessary cost cuts. That means teams in the higher tiers, and some of those that qualify directly, cannot afford to go.

10

I agree that there should be a “Teir 0”.

The problem with “saving money until next year” is that many teams can’t. For instance, 116 has until May 1st to spend what’s left of our NASA grant or we lose it. I’m sure several other teams face similar situations.

11

I think there are definitely some rookie teams, who, regardless of what qualifying awards they have won, certianly have the ability to go to Atlanta and make a mark. If it’s the level of competition that we’re talking about, then highest seeded rookie should qualify rookie teams based on that principle. I agree that the awards system is an effective way to try to cut back on crowded pits and the amount of teams present, but I know that in my personal rookie year with FIRST, it was the national championship that really made me inspired to get more involved. Doesn’t seem like something that anyone should be excluded from.

12
  • Save the money so the team can register for Atlanta next year, or
  • Team members volunteer in Atlanta or attend the FIRST Robotics Conferences

in fact, i AM doing just that. i am most likely going to go to Atlanta with my parents [my family has been highly involved in FIRST since its founding.] like i have done in past years…just experiencing it, and maybe hanging out with other teams…

anyone wanna adopt me to tag along? i won’t touch anything =]

13

Spend it on things you can redeem at a later date other than cash.

Stocks, bonds, raffle prizes for a raffle…

Don’t you love loopholes?

14

This is still one of the things that irks me hugely. After the quality of the rookie teams in 2005, I would have thought FIRST would have realized that Rookies should be as eligible if not more (since they have never gone!) to go to championship.

Im not sure what was meant about the 3 spot alliances opening up space… the champs were definitely over 300 teams in 2000 when I ran inspection (trust me, after shuffling 300+ inspection sheets, you remember!!).

And last year, our team was added and removed from the championship roster WAY too many times… I say if a team has the money in November when registration hits the end of Tier1, let rookies sign up(Im all for a Tier0). Let them experience FIRST like they have never seen, let them catch the bug that is only caught at championships!!

Its silly with the quality of some of these rookie teams that are beating out our veterans in involvement, in robots, even in awards, but yet still arent “qualified” to go to championships in FIRST’s eyes.

This is the exact reason 1511 did not want to be even in the running for RAS at our other regionals once we won it. We wanted as many rookie teams at champs as possible. Its just not right to deny rookie teams the right to go when there are spots open and it could potentially keep them in FIRST.

lets the heat out of my collar

All that said, I know there is a waiting list for champs, and I know there are ways to get on it (though unfortunately I cant say exactly how outside of calling FIRST and pleading).

PLEASE FIRST, realize what championship means to rookie teams, and realize the caliber of rookie teams that are coming out these days… dont make them jaded in their first year. Give them this chance, PLEASE!!!

Oh and P.S. Libbeh, if you want to come hang out with 1511, we <3 rookies… it was our favorite year! We might even let ya touch the robot! :slight_smile:

15

While I agree that there certainly are some terrific rookies, I am going to take the other side.

I do not know the exact numbers that rookies started last season and began this season, so I took a sample of 200 teams from 1500-1700, all of which I believe were rookies last year. According to the master list, only 152 of those teams survive to this day. That means that each year, 25% of rookies fold due to lack of funding support or student/mentor interest.

I’m not sure about you, but I was pretty shocked at that statistic.

FIRST realizes that in order to promote the robotics competition, teams have to survive for more than a year. While I am not sure if this rule was in effect last year (I get the feeling from this thread that it was not) I’m willing to bet that many of the teams that folded due to lack of funding did go to Championships. Maybe they had the time of their lives, or maybe they didn’t realize what they were getting into and got destroyed.

I have not looked up which teams went and which teams proceeded to fold, but I’m fairly sure that FIRST did a little research on the topic. Though this rule seems irrational and unfair, especially to good rookies who didn’t qualify with an award, FIRST is forcing them to save their money so that they will be able to create a longer-lasting team.

16

[quote=Steve Howland]

I have not looked up which teams went and which teams proceeded to fold, but I’m fairly sure that FIRST did a little research on the topic.

17

Last year out of the 186 Rookie Teams that competed at regionals, 35 qualified for Championships. This year out of the 226 rookie teams competing in regionals, 38 have qualified. As the number of rookie teams increase, the percent invited to championships will decrease unless there is another mechanism for invitation. However the ratio still approximates the number of veteran teams who are able to go to championships as well.

So in reality, at this point it still is fair, as fair can be…

Just to muddy the waters, there was one rookie team last year that went to Championship without meeting the qualifications…not a Rookie All Star and not a Regional Winner… If they want to fess up and let the rest of the rookies know how they slipped in…