Need some advice

im the only girl on my team, and when we are asked to come up with ideas on fundraising, the robot, etc, my ideas are usually dismissed or ignored. i was wondering if someone could give me some advice on how to deal with this?

Use facts or data to support your position and insist that others do the same for theirs. Stay away from ideas that are based on emotion. Its hard to argue against the facts. I stress that on my team regardless of gender. All decisions should be based on facts, not opinions or feelings. This prevents strong personalities from dominating the team on every front. Hope this helps!

Disclaimer: I’m a guy, this post is based on what I saw in my team and other teams, as well as my experience as a crew leader…

First of all, talk to your captains and\or crew leader. Tell them what you feel and ask them to help you. Making them aware will make a big difference. Talking to your mentors can help too.
Secondly, try to “force” yourself over the team. When you want to say something, make sure everyone around you is aware (of the “hey guys, I have an idea!” sort). When something needs to be done, do it. Don’t wait for someone to ask you.

The problem you have is actually pretty common. In teams where girls are a minority, they usually have a harder time fitting in than guys. The problem is, when there aren’t many girls on the team it’s easy for stigmas like “mechanical stuff is for guys” to stick.

This problem is not something you’re alone in: I’ve fought with it off-and-on for all three years I’ve been on the team. It’s difficult sometimes to earn the respect you’re due in a team of all guys, but it IS possible.
My very first year of robotics, I wanted to be on our VEX subteam for our local robotics competition (not FIRST). All of the other members were boys, including the VEX captain. After a few weeks of slowly getting acquainted with robotics, I realized that our team wasn’t doing so well due to his weak leadership skills. So, after speaking with our coach about my frustrations, he told me, “If you want our team to do better, why don’t you take over as captain? I know you’ll do well, and I’ll support your decision either way.” The following week, when our ex-captain arrived late to the meeting, he learned of my takeover and was positively freaked out by it. But you know what? We worked twice as fast under my leadership, and had a fully operational VEX robot by the second tournament.
My second year, our team incorporated a student government, and I was elected as Secretary. I worked so hard that year, because I wanted to prove myself capable of taking the Presidency the following year. Now, here I am: Madame President of team 3641. :cool:

I concur with the previous posts; get help from your mentors/coaches, and use facts to back up your ideas. Although, I know firsthand that sometimes not even those options will work. Honestly, for things like fundraising opportunities, you just need to take the initiative. If your team is not listening to your ideas, why don’t you just enact them? Go out and plan these events on your own, then come back to the team and announce, “Hey guys, I’ve set up an event at ______, so be there by XX time or else you won’t get fundraising credit.” In an aggressively male environment, you just have to play by their games, only better. It’s all about out-stubborning the male ego. :wink:

Hope this helps! :slight_smile: I’ve learned everything the hard way, as I was once a shy and submissive girl, and now nothing can tear me down!

…and as a male, I can confirm that we can be pretty darned stubborn. Don’t let that slow you down.

Adult mentors can also dispense advice and encouragement, but some are better than others.

Christi

Please don’t be discouraged. As one of the other posters suggested, just go execute your idea as long as it is not a total reversal of what the team may have decided.

So far, on our second year team, the girls are outperforming the boys. One has made up a bunch of promotional posters and T-shirt graphics on her own initiative. She is now working with some of the mentors to get the T-shirts made. One of the other girls has finished the mock-up of the first level of the pyramid. She then worked with another girl to make a prototype of a device to get to the first level of the pyramid and finished it today. My son will finish his mechanism to score in the 1 point goal later this week. The boys working on the shooter are not making much progress, partly because they will not listen to the advice of the mentors.

First do not get so discouraged that you stop pitching your ideas. I would suggest an idea to your team that our team has implemented this year that has been successful. We (being in Missouri :stuck_out_tongue: ) have enacted the show me method for our team this year. If there is a disagreement between any person on our team we split up and research facts, build small scale prototypes, and develop a boardroom style pitch method for each idea. Then as a team we sit down and discuss what direction we want to go based on what was presented. This method helps bring the louder type A personalities and the quieter type B personalities to be on a closer playing field. Ask you mentors if they want to move the team in this direction and then try inspire your team to develop their presentation skills. I believe that this new method will help our team’s students presentations to our judges, sponsors, and community.

I would also suggest that most teenage boys will believe themselves to be right on any decision they have made. The best way to convince them otherwise is to develop strong friendships with them. I can tell that you are dedicated in First by coming on CD and asking the help of the great community available. Use your great dedication to your advantage when it comes to presenting your ideas to your team; if you do that you just might surprise your self. Two inspirational women on CD are RoboMom and JaneYoung. You might want to PM these two to see if they could help you out also.

If you or your mentors would like to know more about the way and the benefits of the “Show Me” system then just send a PM my way. Good Luck for the rest of the build season and for the rest of your First Robotics Career. :slight_smile:

I dealt with a bit of this when I first joined although not as obvious as it sounds like for you. I was the second girl on my team. For me, the problem went away after a couple months of being a valuable team member. Talk to your mentors too. They may help you. Good luck and please don’t get discouraged.

This is an age old problem, everywhere, not just on robot teams. When I first joined the corporate world (a long time ago but we won’t get specific about that) in a male dominated field, I had the same problem. Men are, on the average, more aggressive than women and push their ideas more effectively. I noticed that many women - including myself - would state an idea as a suggestion. They would say “don’t you think that doing this would be better?” rather than “I think this is better and here’s why”. I had to consciously train myself out of this passivity (partly natural and partly taught by society as expected of women) in order to get ahead. You can’t always be “lady-like” and still get your point across.

Sometimes though, you will have problems with men that think subconsciously that just because you are female, your ideas don’t count. I would like to think this attitude is disappearing but it still exists in many ways.

One example of attitudes. Many years ago when the concept of Take Your Daughter to Work Day was proposed, it was designed as a way for girls of certain ages, who are often overshadowed by boys at school, to see that there is a role for women in the workplace other than in traditional jobs. When my then 10 year old daughter heard about it, she said “that would be great - every time we go on a field trip the boys push up front and girls don’t get to see anything”. The whole focus of TYDTWD has since changed and expanded, (and I don’t want to get into a debate about that), but, the problems still exist.

This is a problem always, but can usually be overcome. Guys are just accustomed to blundering ahead. I know, I am one.

Your adult mentors should be able to help. I certainly hope they are people who can appreciate your issues and will be willing and able to deal with them. Very often the adults on our team are approached by a student who has a concern like yours or something similar, and we see it as out duty to make things better. Usually we can. Very often the guys just don’t realize what is happening.

Second, be sure your suggestions are solid and that you are able to back them up with a sketch, a little model, some data, a video on You Tube - whatever. Maybe you don’t have to tackle the complete design of the bot at first; maybe you can make a suggestion about a sub-assembly or detail that is giving everybody else a headache. In the long run the facts will pull you through and people will learn to pay attention to you. Heaven knows there is always plenty to do, and in the end somebody who gets the job done will be respected.

Best of luck.

Bottom line for the girls on our team is that they have found a place and keep coming back the next year. Have hope!

(Disclaimer: I am a guy, but this post is based on my experiences on my team).

I would guess that much of the time when your ideas are ignored or dismissed, it is not because you are a girl, but because the guys become more attached to their ideas and are very stubborn about giving in. What often happens (not only on robotics, but on other clubs as well), is that the loudest/most assertive members end up making the decisions because they are the most persistent, even though they are often not advocating the strongest design or business strategy. The shyer kids or people more willing to compromise with their ideas end up getting left behind, even when they have great ideas. When people become attached to their designs, they are no longer objective about its pros and cons, and they might not be aware that they are doing this.

I think its important for teams to be aware of this and to try to structure their brainstorming sessions so that all ideas are heard and considered objectively. There are different ways to do this and some have already been suggested.

The other ways to make yourself heard is to back up your ideas with research of past years’ robots that had similar mechanisms. Don’t be afraid to challenge someone else’s designs, and don’t give up on a better design just because people don’t understand it. The trick is to be able to persuade people to choose the better design without becoming so attached that you blind yourself to its drawbacks. I also found that as people became more experienced on the team, they built up their reputation, so their opinions were more considered. This doesn’t mean you won’t still have to fight through more aggressive people to be heard though.

most of the time its the adults who dismiss my ideas.

My team for the past six years has been composed in the same way, there was probably only 2 girls on the team at any given time. In the beginning it was hard for them to get ideas across to us. Kinda like what some of the other post said guys are stubborn. With time however those girls did go on and became Team Leads in Mechanical and Electrical. One also was a Co Team Captain with me my senior year. Now i am a mentor and I’m watching a complete shift in mentally of the team when it comes to ideas given by anyone… I guess the moral is just be patient and the guys will come around. But never give up on giving input about anything; you might be right and the facts will back you in the end. :smiley: