I have 4 spark Max’s each attached to 1 neo. The spark max are configured to brushless giving no error code and lighting up when it’s getting drive commands but the motor wont spin. I dont think it’s a motor failure due to it being 4 brand new neo. This has been going on for a while and I have no idea what to do.
Are the Neo’s mounted in a gearbox or do they just have free spinning shafts?
The reason I ask is because this past weekend I saw an instance of one drivetrain motor apparently not working, but it turned out that the keystock pinning the Neo shaft to the pinion gear had come out.
So the Neo was actually spinning but just not applying any force.
The neo is in a gearbox but it wasn’t giving any indication of free spinning ex noise coming from the motor or any vibration. I have never dealt with brushless motor before so it is posible when I get the chance I will double check.
I took a look and they are not free spinning. So I am at a loss of what to do
We had this issue and it turned out to be a bad SparkMax.
We have 4 brand new spark maxes and they are all doing it
Provide us pictures of your wiring?
You can always test the Spark Max by connecting it to a known good motor, e.g., the working Neo right next to it in the gearbox.
We use a spare Neo setup for this.
That’ll isolate it to that particular Neo motor vs other potential causes.
It’ll also verify the wiring up to the suspect Neo.
We used SPARK MAX controllers and NEOs for the first time this year and we really struggled with them not responding. We learned that you cannot switch back and forth between controlling with the roboRIO/CAN and the SPARK MAX client without doing a factory reset in between.
The only documentation I see for this is one line in the 1.4.0 firmware release notes:
Adds locking mechanism to prevent simultaneous USB and CAN commands.
From what we observed, if you try to switch back and forth without doing a factory reset with the SPARK MAX Client the controller doesn’t power the motor. The lights flash like it is working and there are no error messages, but no power is given to the motors.
Try connecting the SPARK MAX Client via USB and restore factory defaults, then power cycle and see if it works.
This has happened to us when we were troubleshooting our climber mech, green lights but 0 power to the motor. I ended up getting Rev support to replace the controller because I couldn’t figure out what was wrong with it and was afraid it was a flaky one. I’ll have to remember for next time.
This is exactly when we ran into it. We were testing our climb using the SPARK MAX client before code was ready. Once we had code ready it wouldn’t move the motors since they had been controlled with the client.
This is incorrect.
Clearing the lockout only requires a power cycle of the device. You must ensure that the roboRIO isn’t sending out CAN packets, or else it will lock again. The easiest way to do this is to disconnect the CAN cable from the MAX and power cycle it. USB control will then be possible.
@andrew-5678 take a look at our SPARK MAX Troubleshooting Guide. It will help you isolate where the issue might becoming from. Please reach out to us at [email protected] after going through the guide.
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Then there is some other defect in the controller firmware that’s requiring a factory reset because this is not the observed behavior.
Please send us an email with a very detailed step-by-step process to reproduce the behavior.
Included should be a confirmation of this controllers firmware version, every configuration parameter that is being changed from default either through code or the client, the code itself, etc.
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We’ve got 4 dead REV SPARK MAX controllers and one dead NEO. In fact, it was the Neo that killed at least 3 of the motor controllers. During a competition, we started having problems with our shooter that was powered by 2 SPARK MAX controllers and two NEOs mounted (controlled by CAN bus) on opposite sides of the shooter flywheel. FWIW, we’ve been using CAN bus since 2010. First with the Jaguars, then with both the Talon SRX and the Victor SPX motor controllers using CIMs, bag motors, etc. We verified that they were both spinning in the correct direction and everything looked good.
The symptom was that after about 4 matches, we started losing torque at the shooter and the power cells would just jam instead of being shot. Back in the pits, we noticed that there were no lights on the SparkMAX on one side. So, we swapped the motor controller and the shooter
seemed to spin up, lights OK, etc. Then, on the field it happened again. Same deal, we swapped
the motor controller on the bad side. Of course, it happened a third time. But, by that time, we’d already lost so many matches that it was too late to do anything to salvage the competition.
We got back to our shop and I started trying to diagnose the SPARK MAX controllers. We did a hard reset of the controllers, got to the firmware and reflashed to V 1.5.2 via USB. There was no CAN bus connected. Reset to factory defaults, but no joy in getting our other NEOs to respond via USB. Plugged in the CAN bus and the devices could be seen on the CAN bus only if they were powered by the USB Otherwise, no lights on the controller at all and no movement on the NEOs.
However, I still had one good SPARK MAX. So, I wrote off the 3 dead SPARK MAX controllers and used our last known good SPARK MAX to test all of our NEOs. Everything worked as expected via the CAN bus until I got to the motor from the shooter (we’d taken it off of the 'bot for testing). When I hooked up that motor, it sputtered in turning and then stopped and our forth SPARK MAX was now dead. At this point, being out $325 (4 dead SPARK MAX and one NEO that was a controller killer), we punted and have switched back to the Talon SRX and CIMs.
So, our first foray with brushless was now declared as a dead end by our lead mentor, Dave Lavery. We’ve taken all of the NEOs and our last working SPARK MAX off of the robot (we had 3 on the robot with 3 NEOs) and switched back to Talons and brushed motors. Too bad, too. We were using the sensors in the SPARK MAX controllers and were getting good PID control up until everything went to hell in a hand basket.
I’m sorry that you had a bad experience. I don’t see any correspondence in our support email system, so please let me know if you did reach out after your competition. If so, send me a DM with the email address used.
From your description of events, it sounds like there was a problem with the shooter that caused one of the NEOs in to be overloaded and fail, which then overloaded each SPARK MAX that you tried to control it with. Unfortunately, a damaged motor can be hard to find in a multi-motor system, whether it is a drivetrain or a shooter, without going through the whole process of trying to isolate the issue.
Based on our testing and experience over two seasons with the MAX and NEO, the NEO will be the first thing to fail in an overloading condition. The MAX will survive for a period of time before its rated limits are exceeded. After each swap, it sounds like the shooter spun for some time before failure. After those matches, did you notice higher current in the PDP logs on one of the two shooter channels before it failed? I would expect to see this, which would lead down the diagnostic path of a failed/shorted motor.
The bigger question is what lead to the initial failure? A few troubleshooting questions I have:
- Are both MAXs being controlled individually or is one configured to follow the other?
- What current limits were configured on each MAX?
- Were both MAXs in Brake or Coast mode?
- What did the logs show from that first match with a failure?
The answers to these questions might point to what lead to the initial failure. Take a look at our Troubleshooting Guide for some tips on finding that root cause.
Please reach out to us at [email protected]. We would like to try and find the ultimate root cause so that you don’t run into the same problem with your CIMs. While the CIMs definitely can withstand an overload longer than a NEO, it still isn’t good for the motor and can degrade its performance over time.
Hi There!
We just finished troubleshooting the issues, So, we haven’t gotten to the tech support issues yet. I’ll plan on doing that today. As for your questions:
-
Are both MAXs being controlled individually or is one configured to follow the other? One was set to follow the other. -
What current limits were configured on each MAX? Factory default. -
Were both MAXs in Brake or Coast mode? Both in coast mode -
What did the logs show from that first match with a failure? Unfortunately, we were also having problems with a loose connection on our drive train. So, that masked the problem from the logs.
I’d be happy to send these devices back to you so you can perform any factory troubleshooting. I guess I should contact [email protected] and ask for an RMA?
Mike Anderson
FRC 116
Definitely send us an email. We can run some diagnostics and figure out what failed. Based on your earlier descriptions, I suspect the h-bridge has been damaged from high current for a longer than rated period of time from the damaged motor.
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