I disagree about the bad teams bringing the good teams down. I believe its the “good” teams bringing the “bad” teams up. I dont think FIRST is about the top 30%, everyone who builds a robot ought to be able to compete in nationals.
Never been to nats, no idea about congestion. If my team gets money i’ll be going this year, not sure how likely that is.
*Originally posted by GregT *
**I disagree about the bad teams bringing the good teams up. I believe its the “good” teams bringing the “bad” teams up. I dont think FIRST is about the top 30%, everyone who builds a robot ought to be able to compete in nationals.
**
The main problem with having so many teams is people posting your response to a post before you get a chance to do it yourself.
Well said Greg.
That said, I would enjoy having nationals be in different cities each year - like the Olympics, Final Four, or Super Bowl. It would be a neat way to be able to see a new city each year.
Another idea is to not have it in a city. Have everyone bring a tent and some sunscreen and we’ll have it in the deserts of the American Southwest. Like Burning Man, but with robots, and less debauchery.
Indianapolis can easily hold the nationals at the RCA Dome/ Convention Center. We host the NCAA final 4, Big 10 tourney, indy 500, brickyard 400, USGP, colts, pacers. we have TONS of hotels in the very close vicinity with reasonable prices. they have even talked about indy hosting the NCAA Final 4 all the time. There is lots to do downtown. Circle Centre Mall, NCAA Hall of Champions, and the canal are all nearby. There is lots to do downtown and it is all in a close vicinity. Teams can even go visit the Indianapolis Motor Speedway for $5. It’s well worth your money. If we have no problems hosting all those events then we should have no problem with hosting the Nats and we wouldn’t have to limit the nunber of teams because space isn’t a problem. We’re not Disney, but who needs it? You’ll save lots of money by comming to Indy.
All of the fields can be kept inside the RCA Dome and the pits can be in the Convention Center that is attached. You wouldn’t have to walk as far either. Our College sponsor, IUPUI, is also right next to the RCA Dome/ Convention Center so we could have access to all of the Machine Shop facilities that are necessary.
I disagree about the bad teams bringing the good teams down. I believe its the “good” teams bringing the “bad” teams up. I dont think FIRST is about the top 30%, everyone who builds a robot ought to be able to compete in nationals.
agreed…but greg i think the one thing that you missed on this whole topic is that FIRST isnt about bringing a team “up” or bringing teams “down” its about everyone coming together to and bringing each other together…now i have never been involved in an orginization where this type of competition exists…so i think this is about the friendship…FIRST is a great experience.
Now about a different subject now…where should nationals be held…hmm we need a place that is big enough to hold say 15,000 people and of course ive never been to one so i dont know…this year will be ourfirst if we can get the money but i think the bottom line here is that disney is too expensive…we need a place that is cheaper…and actually now that i think about it we could have it right here in philly at the old convention center…which is huge and philadelphia hotels cheaper…philadelphia is a great place and of course its not as cool as say disney world the experienceis the same…just a thought…lets think about that…
Yea, all those places can hold the Nats. But how many can hold all those people and keep them entertained for 5 days? Disney is the only one with the venues to hold 6,000 + kids and not disrupt regular traifc, and you don’t have to book 5 years in advance. They can take care of 6,000 hords of people running out, and in any city, this would be impossible. If many concerts car barely contian 3,000 people, with trafic jams, etc, how can 6,000 screaming hords of kids sound to anybody? Plus Disney is one true place to let not-FIRST people check it out. If you’ve ever left after Illuminations at Epcot, you’ll understand what I’m talking about here.
Plus, Disney and Dean are very snug right now (Segway at Epcot, DL, unveiling on ABC, owned by Disney, etc.), this will not likely to change for at least 10 years.
There are really two ideas going here. I would like to address one of them, which teams go to nationals. It is my firm conviction that all teams should go to nationals if they want. Having been an adult advisor for six years, I have seen firsthand the education students receive when exposed to FIRST. Students (and adults) learn from veteran and rookie teams alike. They learn from high scoring teams and low scoring teams. But above all, students learn best when they have fun. Regionals are fun to be sure, but to be able to say you played at the Nationals and to be in that environment is big fun for all involved. I personally feel that students get the most from this program when they get to play. It is for that reason that we help other teams get their robots working when needed. If you came to play we are bound to help you (gracious professionalism)do just that.
I know the struggle FIRST has had on growing the program and still getting teams into the nationals. I think this new method will work for all involved.
Good Luck All
The odd-even year selection plus special awards qualifications and regional winners. Up until this year anyone who wanted could go. We are so big now Disney can’t keep up. I remember closing ceremonies about four years ago when a Disney VP got up and started talking about how great FIRST was and how Disney was so behind the program that “as long as FIRST wants to come to Epcot we will be here for you”. (quoted to the best of my recollection.) That is a very strong statement when you see what the outlay for Disney is. They have to balance out the facilities and manpower to build and manage this three day event, which I think is the biggest show on the property.
Disney spends a huge amount of time, money, and energy into this event. It takes over 3 months to start construciton and cast, and two more to deconstruct. They have to hold back want-a-be vacationers, with all their money, from comming for a week.
But remember, Disney is the only place where they are able to handle something this big.
I think that Disneyland in Anaheim could handle it. They have 2 parks, and there is a large, convention center across the street. There are more than 100 new hotels there and more than 100 all ready existing ones. The city’s infrastructure was made and adapted to handle huge crowds for conventions. I think that if FIRST wanted a West Coast and an East Coast championship, that Disneyland would be the best for the west coast.
As long as sponsors keep realizing the need for this program, I see only a few more years before FIRST is big enough to be considered the same as high school basketball or football. Teams could go to a state or district tourney to qualify for their League’s final. Midwest has enough teams to start their own leagues, same with New Eangland and the South. Basically do away with nats and have more maybe 40-50 regionals country wide. Then have 300 team competitions in detriot/chicago, philly/newyork, alanta/orlando, seatle/LA. It would be just like we have now as a whole, but would be multiple ones over the country.
Granted we would lose the chance to compete with our friends from other parts of the country but when does an Florida high school football team play one from Utah? I would miss the charm of the old FIRST but this way more kids can gain from the experience. I was on a team when Dean and Woody came to every regional and 30 teams was a packed house. Now 50-70 team regionals are going on and almost 4 a week. Even with the growth i still see the same learning process in the rookies as i went through. I think FIRST should keep growing even if it means a branching out away from each other.
Disney wants utter controll over everything. Thus why they are giving us packages for the Nats. This wouldn’t work for Disneyland. They have two hotels, and one is an ultra-expensive one.
im really liking the idea of having 2 nationals, one at Disneyland in Anaheim, the other in Florida. That was a great idea, Sean_330
I’ve always wanted to go to the Midwest, and also, the Midwest is central, so teams wont need to fly across the entire nation,
If David Kelly (234) is right, then having the Nationals in the Midwest would be great.
I also thought of having “Floating Nationals” which would move to different parts of the country.
The problem with having lots of regionals in place of finals, is that some areas of the country have MUCH more teams than others.
Central Jersey (Pharmaceutical Valley) we have lots of teams, same for the Midwest, which has a lot too, and CA, which also have a concentration.
A national is what brings the FIRST community together, both physically and competitively. If we split the Nats into more than two, i think we’d be missing the point.
I’ve heard some very good ideas here. Perhaps one might become a true contender for future events.
Personally, i totally disagree with the idea of separate nationals. The thing i like best about nationals is getting to compete against all the teams. To have separate nationals would be not much different than just two great big regionals. What is the purpose? Not to mention, i don’t think Disneyland in Anaheim could hold more than about 100 teams. Y’all forget that while Disneyworld is its own county, Disneyland is in a large metropolitan area. I think it would be a great place for a regional, but short of closing the parks, i see no way they could ever host a national comp.
Also, i initially was totally against this even number/odd number system. It made no sense to me. I figured, if a team couldn’t manage to qualify on their own, they had no right competing at nationals. Well, since the regional this weekend, i have most definitely changed my mind. Just because a team does not have paid engineering help, they are no less a part of FIRST than Kingman or Beatty. Many small teams can’t afford to go to nationals anyway, but i think there should be some allowance for those who can afford it to go at least every few years. Whether they keep this system or not, i hope the new system has some allowance for teams to go taht is not based on rankings.
I can think of four places where we can have Nationals where thousnads of people can be housed and kept busy for 5 days… Atlanta, Georgia; Lake Placid, New York; Los Angeles, California; and now Salt Lake City, Utah. If you can’t figure out why I listed those places it’s because those were all host cities for the Olympics. Obviously they had "atheletes’ villiages and arenas to hold the events. And if the atheletes there weren’t entertaind there would have been problems. I don’t know that’s just my opinion of how we can have Nationals for everyone and have it travel around so that each year it would be less costly for each different area… This way the west coast has a chance to host, as well as the east coast and the middle of the country (maybe we could even get some more teams to pop up in utah and the nearby states). oh well, $0.02 from me.
Do you think FIRST has enough money to buld Olimpic Villages? Nope. Those places have anticipated the Olympics years in advance. FIRST is just like some science fair to them. We will be ignored and will have to fend for ourselves. Disney is the only place in the forceable future for FIRST.
*Originally posted by Team384:JosephM *
**Do you think FIRST has enough money to buld Olimpic Villages? Nope. Those places have anticipated the Olympics years in advance. FIRST is just like some science fair to them. We will be ignored and will have to fend for ourselves. Disney is the only place in the forceable future for FIRST. **
I think that you missed Carolyn’s point. Cities that have hosted the Olympics have already built Olympic Villages. Once the Olympics are over, those venues are not torn down - they are used over and over to host huge conventions, conferences, colloquia, competitions, and other things that start with “c.”
By definition, any city that has hosted the Olympics has the facilities, housing/hotels, and infrastructure necessary to support an influx of more than 500,000 people for several weeks. Despite the phenominal growth rate of FIRST, we are several years away from overwhelming resources like that. And the cities that have those resources are anxious for groups of all sizes to make use of them.
-dave
“Gee, don’t the gears have to actually touch each other to work?”
– innocent student to “know-it-all” engineer (names withheld to protect the innocent)
*Originally posted by dlavery *
**
they are used over and over to host huge conventions, conferences, colloquia, competitions, and other things that start with “c.”
**
LoL, you missed a “c” word - College. I’m visiting Georgia Tech right now (and will be attending here next year) and they use the olympic village as dorm rooms.
Did u know a regional costs on avg about 1million dollars for each one!
First has how many again (like 15) imagine 15 million dollars being spent! and i bet nationals is 1.5 million. Where does first get all this money!!??
thats why they prob started segway
Aman