As far as I can tell, there is not much information on how rules will be changed this upcoming year in relation to the new radio. Given the spec sheets, requirements for operation, and the reasons for switching, (I think) we can expect some exciting new changes to rules, specifically regarding wireless connectivity at competition.
Thanks to the change to the 6Ghz band, we may be finally allowed to use (non 6ghz) wireless connections at competition, finally alleviating a major headache of teams and spectators. Given the official use case listed for āpracticing at homeā we may be able to connect wirelessly at the practice field, which frees up space for teams practicing to move around each other, gives teams more freedom of motion when testing, and generally alleviates the headaches resulting from a tangled or caught tether cable.
If you have any more official documentation, or insider info on potential rule changes, feel free to share!
Itās great to see you are excited about the future!
So far - vivid hostingās website, and the FRC blog post. Those are trustworthy sources for sure.
If anyone claims to know about rule changes that arenāt announced yet, and shares the info on CD - I donāt trust that person farther than I can throw them. And Iām a pretty scrawny guy that doesnāt play sports well
I wouldnt hold my breath for wireless use in the pits this year. If anything, wireless practice fieldā¦ maybe (though there wouldnāt be much of anything preventing teams from doing both, so probably not)
I really hope that this isnāt the case, or if it is it comes with much stricter rules around practice field access and safety.
I understand that people running after robots with a tether is unsafe, and should be mitigated (Iāve seen more teams move to longer tethers and something to support it with more reach, such as a fishing pole). But I fear that if we move to wireless practice teams will be more careless and more people will get hurt. Teams may do a decent job of being cognizant of when their robot is about to move, but I have seen too many times where people arenāt aware of what other robots around them are about to do (whether itās because they arenāt paying attention or because other robots are less predictable).
If wireless practice comes alongside more space limitations (no one can be within X feet of a robot and itās intended path when itās being tested), and greater supervision, then maybe this is something that would improve safety and team experiences. But I donāt think we can or should drop wireless practice into the same experience we have done in the past.
Im not specifically referring to wireless robot connection, more to things like WiFi hotspots, bluetooth controllers, etc. Though I doubt weāll hear much about this until the game manual drops since teams donāt really need to know 6 months ahead of time if they can use a WAP at comp when 2-3 months is sufficient.
I think this is honestly the best option barring wireless. We didnāt make it to champs, but according to this document about the practice fields at champs, wireless practice fields were available. Though I cant quite make out if they were spare fields setup for practice matches, or wireless fields for testing auto.
The caveat of having wireless at the practice field is that once ur radio is in bridge mode, youād have to use a different radio on the practice field and I can just see things going wrong with repeatedly swapping the radio.
(Context) I was one of the practice field FTAs this year at Champs.
There were two full-size fields on either end of the FRC floor (so 4 in total).
One was dedicated to tether practice, 4 teams on the field at a time for 10 minutes. No restrictions on what you can test, it was predominantly used for auto testing but I saw some of everything.
The other was dedicated to playing practice matches like you would on a real field (minus refs and real scoring), with teams getting two matches back to back with a few minutes to reset in between.
Separate from that there were wooden practice elements like you would see at regional event (6 sets per side I want to say?) and two full-size, field-quality stages to practice tethered climbs and traps.
If we keep a tethered field, I think mandating longer ethernets and no one within several feet of a robot and itās intended path is the only way to go. There were multiple injuries and near-misses on the tethered fields, and something needs to change. I donāt believe wireless practice (short of moving to a system where no one is on the field while robots are running) is the right direction regardless of wooden fields or full fields, even though itās supported by the new radios.
Practice fields at champs were full fields, 2 complete with FMS and the field AP, and the other 2 were tether-only.
I still wouldnāt hold my breath for that rule change this year. Itās certainly possible, and Iām sure events will be less aggressive about enforcing it, but I wouldnt be surprised if they wait a full year season before opening that up.
Honestly, 100% agree with this. I feel like one of the biggest problems is the lack of safety requirements on the practice field. One thing that may be a big help is having for example a plywood ā table ā that can be used as a driver station to create a mental barrier between the field and the driver (safe) side. This along with perhaps a small plywood barrier even if itās just a few 2x4s, or taped off safety zone would help to ensure safety.
I feel most team members wander around the practice field a bit too much without regard for the robots. Surprisingly, I noticed a drastic drop in awareness around robots at competition compared to practicing at home. Not sure if itās just the stress of competition, or perhaps the lack of a defined danger zone, but something needs to change. Iām sure youāve also seen some of the things teams get away with on the practice field without repercussion that would be an immediate e-stop on an actual field. Things like running full speed toward an individual, with or without a barrier to stop them come to mind.
We were just having this discussion. Now that the fields will be 6 GHz, and mobile phones arenāt allowed to use this band for hotspots, it would be great if hotspots were explicitly allowed in the stands.
Specifically, even for a simple scouting app based on a google form (which is a fairly easy thing even for low resource teams), students need data to be able to access this from their phones. This has been a concern as a majority of our student scouters donāt have data. A simple solution would be for one team member with data to offer a team hotspot, and then the other scouters can submit results through that. This is by far the simplest and most cost effective solution we can come up with.
I wouldnāt hold your breath, Event Staff will continue to use WiFi for event management, so my guess would be that team WiFi use will continue to be restricted to prevent interference.
Fun fact, official fields do ship with a wireless practice field setup, it is just rarely setup because it is cumbersome for teams to switch radios for the practice field.
But due to safety concerns, especially on small/crowded practice fields, I donāt think weāll see a change to allow wireless on practice fields (Unless itās a full field with gates)
Based on the release notes for VH-109_1.2.0-09142024, I think itās safe to assume we will see the robot bandwidth limit restored to 7Mbps (from 4Mbps) like it was in 2018.
It is also my understanding that the RIO will be required to be directly connected to the Radioās RIO port, and will not be allowed to be connected via a switch.
According to this, the bandwidth limit change is for access point mode only, eg scrimmage hosting or home practice, not for radio mode.
Iām hopeful that this will be fixed this season with stricter guidelines on practice field safety, and perhaps more requirements for safe practice field setup. Simple changes like only 3 people on the practice field at a time, only one person interacting with the robot, no-one on the field when autonomous is being tested, even small changes like a few 2x4s lined up as a ābarrierā of sorts would help to mentally separate the danger zone from the safe zone.
Tethering, as it stands, is not the solution however. Another option to avoid swapping radios or reconfiguring could be a second radio running in bridge mode permenantly linked to a ādriver stationā radio kept by the volunteer running the field. Using this, teams could connect wirelessly simply by hooking the secondary radio into their robot radio and enabling POE to deliver power to the fieldās robot radio.
I misunderstood the document to say that the bandwidth limit for all traffic on the AP is 7mbps, which would imply a drastic difference from the 109 to 113 firmware, I forgot that it can be configured to only allow 7mbps from each device.
I wish the changelogs were more clear on this, but weāre likely going to get much more detailed specs when the final decision is made on any FMS changes this year.
