Noodle Agreement for Coopertition

Wow, noodles really mess up the field … for the other guy. It can interfere with getting to the Step to stack the yellow totes.

I propose the following noodle agreement:

No throwing noodles until after the yellow totes are stacked on the step.

Works for me, so long as there is no pact to lynch teams who refuse :rolleyes:

They would be lynching themselves. Coopertition is a lot of points to give up in what I think will be an otherwise low scoring game.

I was referring to the original noodle agreement thread where someone drew up a contract that they would basically force everyone to sign by manipulation and extortion.

I will propose this:

I don’t think the Coopertition Bonus will be in play in very many matches. I’d go into reasoning, but that’s a bit off-topic. Given what I’ve seen so far, and thinking maybe a bit harder than I should be…

There are two questions that need to be asked between the alliances, the first of which will make the second one relevant or irrelevant.

  1. Do you guys want to go for the Coopertition Bonus (stack or set)?
  2. If so, would you be willing to hold off on throwing Litter until the bonus has been scored? (If the answer to the first is “no”, obviously all bets are off.)

Given what I saw on webcast, waiting to throw litter and not doing silly things to your landfill can really help in getting coopertition done (assuming litter is as easily thrown as at Suffield).

From what I saw on the suffield stream, coopertition could make up a lot of points, and holding off on the noodles would be a good idea.

Suffield is not a good indicator of live game as they were 5 minute matches. MORE THAN DOUBLE real game time.

Very disappointing Autonomous attempts. Wonder how many elimination matches will involve anonymous as a scoring factor.

Best I saw in 5 minutes was TWO 4+Bin+noodle and a ONE 5 stack but that was 5 minutes not 2:15.

I saw 3 in other matches cooperative stacks again in 5 minutes. Some that tried and could not reach step.

Time is going to be a huge factor …we purposely scrimmaged using 2:15. To get used to actual speed of the game learning to be efficient. Suffield to me looked in slow mo after just coming from our scrimmage.

Noodles can definitely be a nuisance often I saw 7 on the field that’s -28 points unless your alliance matches…also looks hard to accurately sweep noodle into open landfill areas.

Sort of have to have some sort of an agreement ahead of time or noodles may mess up the best laid plans of your alliance IF you don’t have a counter strategy.

Almost have to approach this the way the US/USSR did with MAD.

The other alliance was able to get 7/10 noodles across the step and over your landfill? That’s very impressive and I doubt that will happen often. Also it is not -28 points, it is +28 points for the other alliance. That’s a huge difference since matches are not played head to head. That would be like saying a coopertition stack in a match you were not in is -40 points for your team…

Noodles are going to be a nuisance for sure, especially for driving as they start raining down as soon as Teleop starts but at the Week 0 event in Merrimack, I noticed only one or two that was severely in the way.

However, coopertition is a huge point swing for both alliances so it would benefit them to try and get it as soon as possible. If agreeing to not start the hailstorm of noodle fire until after the set or stack is completed, I wouldn’t argue.

The fastest to the step gets the containers too…

Oh…that makes me feel better.

Honestly, I don’t see why you would start throwing noodles early. In this year’s points setup, it doesn’t help you to pull the other alliance down (game pieces from the step that you score excepted). Assuming that you can throw a noodle in 2 seconds, it is best to wait until about 45 seconds before the end of the match, and throw all of it then, leaving a minimum amount of time for the other alliance to process it. (Not that it’s likely anyway, at 1 point.)

To mess up the field for the other team. The litter gets in the way of clearing the landfill.

Yes, but you are not directly competing against them and limit their ability to help get your alliance 40 extra points which is the goal max points then cooperative points as 1st tiebreaker

You might get say 28 if very lucky with throws with say 7 noodles but loose 12 extra potential (40)…by throwing them too early and negating the other alliance from completing the cooperative stack.

It does help to pull the opposing alliance down. Yes you may not be competing directly against them match wise but ranking wise you are. If you were to play 10 matches for example, an accurate human player can make a match difficult for potentially 30 teams and bring their ranking down. Especially if you were playing against a team your fighting for ranking position against and knew they could do coopertition noodles or not, it is advantageous to throw them very early on.

Unless you’re essentially perfect, it still doesn’t help in the long run. For argument’s sake, I’ll assume that the impact of litter lying around is linear - two noodles, twice the impact.

At our regional, 57 teams will compete; I believe this is fairly typical. Each piece of litter pulls down three teams, so the net effect on the average is 1/19 of the effect on that one alliance. On the other hand, every noodle you drop in your own work area affects you (and your alliance partners) completely - 19 times as much. Unless you’ve got a better than 19:1 chance of the litter winding up in their work area as yours, you’re doing your team and alliance a net disservice.

Multiply that by the effect of other alliances doing it during matches when you are not on the field and …

What you stated is a variation of the Prisoner’s Dilemma.

No, the original noodle agreement was a response to a Prisoner’s Dilemma, and required cooperation between “competing” alliances to be of benefit. This is simply weighing the damage you’re doing to yourself to what you’re doing to the average team in your division. Throwing noodles early is a lose-lose.

The crux of the Prisoner’s Dilemma is: If everyone cooperates (throws litter) then everyone is in an equally bad situation. If one person does not cooperate, that person is better off than everyone else (don’t accidentally rain on your own parade). If no one cooperates (no one throws), then everyone is back to an equal position.

In the true Prisoner’s Dilemma, the penalty and rewards are much more skewed. The underlying principle is the same: It is to your benefit to be different.