It’s broken:(
I understand the allure of working in your team’s pit. But I try to impress on all my students that we’re here for and as a team, and we each have our own jobs. No matter how much you enjoy it or how much you’ve put in, hanging around the pit talking slows work on our robot down, impedes neighboring teams, and restricts traffic for everyone. It’s also a drastically inappropriate use of your time if you’re not the best person(s) for that job.
We’re happy to rotate people, call students from the stands, and have observers if they’re not impeding teams and/or volunteers. In the mean time, there’s other work to be done. Before I spent so much time in our pit, I earned my place by visiting other teams, introducing ourselves, helping them and looking for solutions to our problems. Even now as the adult manager, I spend a lot of time with my alliance partners, scouters, and other teams. There’s plenty of competition experience to be had everywhere.
With no offense towards anyone in particular, I have little patience for any attitude of “I deserve to be here” because I earned it or even because I know best. Part of inspiring students to STEM and other professional careers is teaching them to work on a team and appreciate the value of every position on it. Understand that if we’re asking you to leave it’s because you’re impeding the performance or ourselves or others and because your time, for the current moment, could be better spend elsewhere.
Your dropbox hates hotlinking. I’ll attach your picture to this post for clarity.
If that’s representative of your claim that you only use 29% of your pit for storage and robot, then I’m skeptical. If that’s a 10’ x 10’ pit and those square on the corners are 18" squares, then it sure looks like you’re already using nearly 30% of your pit space without a robot in there. And a robot with bumpers is going to take up about 10% of your pit space as it is. Basically, I’m skeptical of your claim that you can have 13-16 people fully contained in your pit and working productively on a robot.
Perhaps he’s talking about using 29% of the volume of the pit, not the floor area. Perhaps also the 13 students are stacked vertically in pairs to use the full 10’ height.
I’d like to suggest “Robot Escort” - kind of like a police escort.
- Mr. Van
Coach, Robodox
Hmm, a new role for Robodox?
It is impossible. Assume that the average person takes up 1 square foot of space that leaves 5 square feet of non-human existence and you can barely fit a robot much less tools, the table, and have room to work (because 1 square foot is just standing room not moving around and actually working).
What I really can’t stand is when people put so much in their pit for display, storage, and “cool factor” that the team members have to stand outside of their pit to work or have the robot sticking out the front.
There is no reason why a team would need more than 7 people in their pit. (4 drive team and 3 pit crew). If you trained your members properly there would be no need to have a judging reps because you pit and drive team should know your team inside and out.
If teams stayed on top of how many people they had in their pit area and the spill out effect that happens into the aisle. The pits would be a much safer, happier, quieter, and nice place to be for guests and sponsors.
We have over 50 students on the team. The pit crew is just a few students with experts for components bought in when needed to work on problems. At Seattle last year the students came with a new pit crew member. The position is host/bouncer. He was host to any guests that came and a bouncer to keep our own team from filling the pit or aisles around our pit. By answering the questions that people had he allowed the pit crew to work undisturbed. The mentors stay out of the pit unless invited.
Shortened for simplicity.
Coming from a vet like you KoKo, I completely agree. The goal of creating a competition based around science, learning and technology rivaling a sporting event brings with it some of the normal dramas and creates its own.
2 & 3 are the same old thing you get at any event. Falls on volunteers to be diligent but given the sheer masses sometimes, you’re bailing water out of the titanic with a thimble. #4 is one of those things it’s everyone’s job to use common sense. #5 is one I still shake my head at. Even FTC level teams use carts and you can carry those bots one handed. As for #1, I guess that one is a failure of people to read event site rules.
I’ll add to the list though voo voo zella horns :yikes: and over the top horns. Those things I’ll happily stick in the mud.
Yes, vehemently. There is never a need to yell anything.
That’s more like it.
Teams should learn from this.
Seconded. Do we get to vote on it now?
Oh, I am so glad you mentioned this. Last year I was talking to judges about 60% of the time I was in the pits, and teams would plow through screaming ROBOT with no regard for what they were interrupting. This meant that I had to repeat things and get uncomfortably close to the judges just to explain parts of our robot. This is especially difficult for teams like Gatorzillas, who have a pit that’s not conducive to quickly shuffling judges in as a robot comes plowing through.
As others have said, our policy is to send whichever driver is holding the OI ahead of everyone else to politely clear the way, with the other driver pulling the robot behind. Admittedly, when I took point, I’d mix it up by throwing in sarcasm, but I wouldn’t advise that particular method, especially around anyone on a Segway.
From one BEST/FIRST vet to the rest of you, what things that are common place in BEST competitions would you rather not see at a FIRST regional? I think it would be good to compile a specific list.
This may not be the thread to do this in. It might be good to start a separate thread.
I will add a couple of thoughts here:
- Many teams treat the FRC pits like they treat the Display halls - using those for social gatherings. In LASA, we treat both competitions the same:
- enjoy the competition/check out the Displays and Pits but you have jobs to do and don’t shirk those
- don’t cluster, gather, block, bottleneck
because - you each have jobs to do
- don’t hang around the Pit or Display
because - you are interferring with the work that needs to be done
- for Display purposes, the presenters that maintain the Display are there to talk about the team and the community involvement to visitors, guests, VIPS, Judges, and the teams. They are not there as a magnet for their fellow team members.
- for the Pit purposes, the pit crew is busy maintaining the robot, the Pit, and making themselves available to talk with visitors, guests, VIPS, Judges, and other teams. They are not there as a magnet for their fellow team members.
Because of the nature of the Displays and their purpose, I think some of the FRC/BEST teams fail to completely grasp the importance of the purpose of the Pits and they overwhelm them with social clusters and bottlenecks.
- This is a different discussion but it is an important one. BEST is student centric. FRC isn’t. The programs both support and encourage STEM initiatives but their programs are very different. It takes a lot of time and effort to help new team members and parents understand and grasp the value of those differences each year. Some teams do that well. Some teams don’t. The teams that grasp the value of the differences and work towards setting the bar of excellence in each - are the ones that we see garnering awards and recognition in FIRST and BEST and the other robotics programs as well.
One thing that I love about BEST is their approach to the Pits. They are not open to everyone. They are only available to those who have pit passes and to BEST folks which include Judges and invited VIPs. I like that and think FRC could benefit from something similar with designated times for the Pits to be open to the everyone.
One of the things that I despise about the BEST competitions at Regional level are the bands that are allowed in the stands to support the teams. Not all teams can afford to fund their bands or their cheerleaders travel and they can seriously impact the Spirit Award and other awards, in my opinion. The noise level is dangerous and ridiculous. It totally overwhelms to the work of the DJ who, 9 times out of 10, blasts the speakers to distortion to try to overpower the bands. It’s insane.
In Texas, I think a lot of this has to do with how young and inexperienced so many of the FRC teams are. We should see huge strides in development in our regions in the next 3 to 4 years. That is the hope.
Jane
Also, the 2013 FRC game will be to see who can stack the most amount of freshmen in their pit. Stack Attack II?
I think one of the most inspiring things about FRC competitions is seeing teams working on their robots. Removing that from the public’s view would be detrimental to the program. Some outside observers don’t always believe that the students are building these robots. FIRST does a very good job of keeping spectators safe and just the safety glasses requirement alone keeps some people out of the pit.
Teams are able to take their own view on how welcoming they want their pit. For example at Alamo team 4000 (a rookie team) had a pit that included cut outs for people to take photos with, they obviously didn’t mind having people come by their pit. On the other hand (this is just my take) team 245’s pit was less welcoming which is not a bad thing. Their students were diligently working most of the time and I don’t think many spectators would have interrupted them. How you construct your pit and how you interact with it and manage it determines a lot.
One thing I admit to is I screwed up on the queing design at the entrance and exit and caused quite a stir making people have to walk all the way around the field(it would have worked the same on the exit side but that wasn’t as far a walk). Jess pointed out I could have made an alley at the entrance that would have eased that problem and then people wouldn’t be compelled to dart underneath the bleachers to get food.
My apologies for the inconvenience it caused.
Every year we bring gray vests to our pit. If we see a team member standing around in the pit without doing anything, we put a vest on them and send them around to help other teams. It keeps our pit from getting crowded because our rookies learn really fast not to stand around doing nothing ;). And having people going around trying to help all time isn’t too bad either.
I absolutely agree with everything you have said. What I don’t feel is necessary, is having large groups forming and blocking the robot access to and from the field and making it difficult for the Judges and VIPS and the teams that are working.
Jane
Another thing I would like to point out at events. When you have a question to ask about a certain point of the event you should make sure to ask the right personnel the question so you can get the proper answer that you seek.
All game rule related questions should be asked of the referee (particularly the head referee).
Any technical questions you have about the robot should be brought to the FTA’s attention.
Safety Issues should be brought to the attention of the Safety Advisors who are dressed in dark green shirts.
Pit issues should be brought to the Pit Adman table that is usually located in the center of the curtain on the opposite side from the playing field.
Any Inspection questions should be taken to the Inspectors (they have the bright yellow baseball caps)
Any controls questions should be brought to the attention of the Controls System Advisor (the CSA will have a bright orange baseball cap).
Just because someone is wearing a volunteer shirt does not mean that they will have the answers that you seek and worse yet they could end up giving you the wrong answer which could cause you and your team valuable lost time and headaches that you do not need.
This was a massive problem in Montreal as teams had to cross where the public went to and from the stands, the coat check (a very nice feature indeed) and the FLL event. It didn’t help that people going by would be enthralled by the lights and excitement of the event and stop in the middle of the que path to watch. Most people at the event had never seen a FIRST event before so it was quite a challenge to keep the event moving a everyone safe and away from the playing field area ( I must have made a few hundred “saves” over the weekend playing goalie and blocking people from entering the playing field area. It made the que teams job much much harder that it had to be but I don’t think there was any other way to run the path so we made the best of it).
Based on this post, I sat down with the green shirts for a few minutes at breakfast first thing on Thurs, made this suggestion using Alan’s title of 'vanguards" and asked them to spread the word.
I still heard “robot” throughout the 3 days, but it sure seemed like I heard it a lot less.
Thanks!