I’m not completely certain what you’re referring to here, but what I would say to this is that we’re trying to ensure that our side of the two way street is free of traffic.
What structural differences between the new server and the SLFF server exist?
Again, this is something where I can try to explain it but it’s really best explained by physically joining itself and seeing first-hand. In a nutshell, here’s some of the main ones:
A structured set of rules
A consistent moderation process (ie warning/punishment procedure)
A mutli-tiered staff team, with clear roles and purposes
An emphasis on OFF specifically (for example, IRI watching together)
Discussion specifically to the draft runner, development, and features
There are some other things we’ve done that are similar to the SLFF server (for example, ModMail, a q-and-a channel, etc) because we believe them to be truly beneficial to the community.
All I will say is that I joined semi-recently (past week or so?) and I haven’t experienced any hostility from members of the server or the moderation team. But that is my personal experience.
I know for myself that i would be opposed to drafting in the SLFF server. Being in the SLFF server has not been an enjoyable experience for me thus far, and i would much rather draft in the new server. The reason for this is the way the new server is run, and the people who run it. If there were to be a draft in the SLFF server, or even the new server, i feel there should be some boundaries with it. If you go to the server just to draft, there should be a separate category specifically for this. Let’s just say there’s a “drafter” role (for those who go to the discord just to draft). In my personal opinion, this role, or one like it, should allow members to only see the drafting chats. If they wish to chat with others and be a part of the server, that role could obviously be combined with the others on there that would open them up to the general and social chats. I would feel much more comfortable participating in Discord drafts if something like this was an option.
i am running on 4 hours of sleep i apologize if this didnt make sense. Reply or PM me if you have any questions about what i said
Matthew spoke in a past-tense manner. In the same period of time he’s referencing, no single person was more hostile to the members of the SLFF server than Brennan. Even as someone who is usually reasonably disconnected, it’s been surprising to me to see the quantity of people who had a negative reaction to his presence in that server. Some still play SLFF. Plenty don’t.
Have things been perfect in his absence? No. The server is still dealing with the aftershocks associated with his removal, and the arguments and discussions regarding the surrounding events. But I have noticed a downtick in argumentative, hostile behavior.
Perhaps a downtick in arguments but I would argue that that is more to a lot of people leaving the server out of frustration or getting sick of it.The people who are generally the most hostile to new members and generally help to cultivate the culture of conceited behavior on that server have not left. Additionally I see absolutely no changes or response to community feedback on this matter. There are a lot of people who have been treated worse than they deserve in that server, and not just by someone you dislike.
I also see a pretty lopsided amount of vitriol toward one side purely due to some of the founding members, regardless of the value it can have.
My point of mentioning adding a new role was to prevent drafters from reading discussions entirely. From my experience on the server, i feel this is important for newer members. Im not saying all members have been, or are, treated badly, but i would not want new members to have to go through what i did when i first joined the server. I currently have the entire server muted, thanks.
Thinking about this a bit more, the split platform case still forces people to be on both platforms if they want to see how all tiers are picking. It also allows participants signing up late to an evenly split draft to choose their drafting platform in order to play in a weaker participant pool.
And what of people who feel the opposite? Who would much rather not draft in the other server because of the way it is run or the people who run it? Given that CD is a neutral platform moderated by outsiders it still appears the best drafting platform to me.
I can’t speak for others, but I honestly feel no animus against the founders of the other server. I just believe that moving drafts off of CD isn’t conducive to gaining new participants and would harm the community more than help it. I still can’t help but question the veracity of the proffered justifications for this other server and am struggling to view this as anything more than a thinly veiled attempt to subvert the established SLFF server.
I would rather just not draft in any discord at all. But if we were to draft via discord, I would rather not have it in the SLFF server,
Unless there were some rules/roles or a better way to manage it.
Good point of clarification. – I have no intention to test or host a discord draft runner for the SLFF Discord Server. All of the code will be public, and accessible just like it is now. If anyone for any league or server wants to use it, I will help them through the setup process for their own uses, just like I have helped others set up and test the manual draft runner. The intent has always been to assist draft runners that have had an increasingly hard and thankless job running these drafts, explicitly for SLFF.
It’s definitely frustrating to hear stuff like this. There is a lot of miscommunication happening, and from my perspective it seems like people hear what they want to hear. I think I’ve put a good faith attempt forward on many fronts, and I have largely not been treated the same in kind.
This kind of stuff is the exact sort of thing that we all as a community need to seek to avoid. Snarky, unproductive comments. The fact that many people in this thread can go through some of the testaments about those who felt marginalized by many people in the community in the whole, and then exclusively pin all responsibility on me, and not actually take any action on these issues is sad. The likes on these posts are particularly telling of those who inherently don’t see a problem, and are blind to their own role in this, and what they can do to actually influence the community in a positive way. I’ve been very upfront on what my role has been, and how critical my example has been to the community turning more and more negative and toxic towards new players, weaker teams, and the lack of acceptance of others ideas.
Despite the pretty heavy propaganda, I have been among the first to aggressively attack these issues that the entirety of the community faces, and there’s a lot still to be worked on. We all need to lead by example, change our behavior, and be positive. With the increased competitiveness, more conflict has occurred, and I am one of many important parts to help lead by example a good way to deal with that.
As you pointed out to me with the whole alt account debacle, this likely doesn’t matter because of efficiency scoring.
This is definitely non-ideal, but largely a non-issue. If it’s that big of a deal, join the server during those drafts you care about, or wait to have the results posted to CD. The draft runner will also likely auto post to a google sheet with current results (as per previous feature request around a month ago), but no promises that it’s implemented immediately.
I would hope that people could put their differences aside for long enough to pick 3 teams in a draft. It’s a sad day when we need official platform moderation on draft selections.
Justin stopped working on it months ago. Looks like he is also using Django, and I think this is his repo if someone wants to revive it. Since then I’ve been making an effort to up my skills to be able to do that actually, and I have a prototype list submitter almost functional. I hope to at least deal with list submission and retrieval from that framework to further obfuscate the potential conflict of interest there is with those who run drafts/maintain the system from seeing pick lists.
Ideally the automatic runner is compatible with all major platforms, so that there is as little barrier to entry as possible.
Your point may be correct, but the way you said it was unnecessarily sarcastic. A simple “Have you tried muting the channels?” would have served the same purpose.
It’s not people hearing what they want to hear: it’s interpreting what you said based on their prior experiences with you and the actions they have seen. People react differently to the same words said by different people.
Further, while from what I’ve seen, you’ve made efforts to reach out to people, that does not fix all. Actions speak louder than words, and the actions that many of those you’ve seen include starting a competing server and threatening to remove three people from drafting IRI unnecessarily. Your actions, visible to the people you’ve offended, have to show genuine change. I don’t think they have shown that change. That is why I said “Rome wasn’t built, or rebuilt, in three weeks”. It takes time.
This is true. The missing variable is the rampant behind doors conversations on both sides of the fence that regularly rile people up. This sways my opinions on some people.
I think you misunderstand the point i’m making here. I expect good faith attempts to resolve issues generally as a human being, something that you have done very well in my opinion. This is even more so when the person in question is an administrator of a community. It’s explicitly their responsibility to put forward good faith attempts to resolve issues, and understand conflicting sides and their viewpoints. Rebuilding is a two way street, and all the traffic has been going only one way. This is the point of failure for me, and characterizing the time it takes as it undermines my true point of view, and unfortunately this is done very often by many people, be it intentional or non-intentionally, the outcome is very similar.
While I don’t think opening this can of worms again has much value, this wording I feel is another example of something that is disingenuous to my position and/or actions. Zero people were removed from the draft, three were threatened, one was temporarily removed. This kind of misinformation, or lack of understanding causes a lot of issues, and no matter what the intent was, it causes rifts that are hard to resolve because the people in question can’t actually agree on the fundamental facts about what actually happened.
As some of you may know I’m now officially a Robotics teacher. This is eating my life. As such I’m leaving OFF. I’ve added Brennan to the leaderboard doc and am providing a draft example so that all of you lovely people can do efficiency scoring for yourselves.
The cell offsets for tier sizes are a bit finicky, I never got around to reworking this to handle resizing tiers / adding tiers as efficiently as I would have liked.
Event data should have functional TBA access, I haven’t tested it this OFF season and have done manual data entry, don’t yell at me if you try it and it doesn’t work right
There’s a ‘SingleDraftAdapter’ sheet that can be used for non-tiered drafts. Again, most of this was built to just be functional and not pretty or shared so it might be a bit of a pain to use.
Good luck to everyone still playing, I hope you all make some awesome improvements to the scoring sheet, please publish and share with the community if you do!
OFF