[Official 2008 Game Design] OK, so YOU design the 2009 game...

Competition FRC Game Design
21

One element that recent games have been missing was variety in strategy in alliances. The games over the past few seasons have been very straightforward. This season with teams hurdling trackballs and racing. Last season with scoring on the rack and ramping. And 06 with just shooting/dumping balls into goals. What FIRST needs is a game where there are a variety of strategies that prevail. There needs to be simplicity and complexity for a wide variety of teams. A 2004 style game is the change we need.

In Play Pin Brawl there are many objectives. A box on wheels team can score by ramping while a veteran may want to build a hybrid shooter and try to lift themselves on the pole. A variety of strategies will prevail.

Play Pin Brawl
The Field
Play Pin Brawl is played on a 54’x27’ Carpeted Playing Field. The field contains a center game piece structure known as the ball pin. On both player station sides of the field there is a high goal (30” diameter and 12’ high) and two low goals (on ground level). The field also contains a bonus pole and a ramp.

The Game Piece
The game pieces are 3” diameter hard plastic play pin style balls.
The Object
The object of Play Pin Brawl is to gather balls from the Play Pin and shoot them into the goals.
Match Play
Teams compete in alliances of three. They each must position their robots so they are touching their alliance station wall. The ball pit begins each match with 50 balls in it.
Each match is 2:15 seconds in length. 15 Seconds for Hybrid Mode and 2 Minutes of driver control.
Hybrid Mode
Robots start the match with up to 10 balls.
Robots use preprogrammed commands and commands from their robocoach to attempt to score the 10 balls for regular points in either the high or low goals. They can also earn 5 bonus points for crossing the half field line in hybrid. Alliances also score bonus points for touching the outer wall of the ball pit at the end of hybrid. They score bonus points in the following manner, 4 points for having one robot, 10 for two, and 20 for all three alliance robots touching the ball pit wall.
Tele-operation
Robots are now under student driven control and earn points by scoring balls in the goals. 3 points for each ball in the high goal and 1 point for each ball in the low goal.
End Game Bonuses
Play Pin Brawl features many end game bonuses that only one of the two alliances can receive bonus for each. A robot that uses the bonus pole that is 10 feet high to elevate itself at least 1 foot clear of the ground will receive a 50 point bonus for their alliance. A robot that uses the ramp and is fully on top of the ramp will receive a 20 point bonus for their alliance.
In the final 30 seconds of the match the ball pit will become moveable. If an alliance is able to have the entire ball pit in their home zone (within 12 feet of their alliance station wall) then they will receive a 30 point bonus plus 1 point for each ball that is inside of the ball pit.

22

What about the rows in '05? They were definitely swing points that were hard for both alliance’s to have. I’d also classify them as “end game”, but obviously not “king of the hill”/“position” points.

23

This game looks a lot like the 2006 Mission Mayhem version of Aim High… :yikes:
That was an exciting version of Aim High, nothing like seeing those big robots fall of the 2 sided ramp. Also it was in a cafeteria with a low ceiling so that added to the fun as well. Hope it goes well.

24

I think it would be cool if there were multiple objectives in the autonomous/hybrid period with scoring bonuses if multiple objectives are completed.

Heres the idea,

Task A - “Score High”
Task B - “Score Low”
Task C - “Score Mid”
(Would allow for each robot to do something different)

Each individual objective is worth points on its own (all objectives are of equal value to keep teams from focusing on any one task in their auto programs). But if multiple are completed you earn bonus points.

Task A is completed for +10 points
Task C is completed for +10 points
Bonus of +15 points is awarded for completing 2 tasks for a total of 35 points.
If all 3 had been completed the bonus would be +30 for a total of 60 points in the auto period.

Multiple tasks should not be completed by any one team, but instead alliance partners should work together each focusing on one objective.

25

Penalties.

I don’t see why these are necessary.

The GDC should design games that rely on RULES not PENALTIES. If the GDC wants teams to play a game a specific way they should just say so in the rules. If teams violate the rules they should be DQ’ed or not allowed to pass inspection.

What I don’t like are games where the GDC uses penalties to restrict the game play. In my mind this is like saying “Okay, we don’t want you to do this, but we’ll make it possible for you to get away with it.” As a result, teams wind up scoring “negative points” for their alliances…

What I’m trying to say is this: the GDC should never design a game that relies on penalties. They aren’t fun, they never seem fair, they make the refs jobs harder, and they make the game more confusing.

Just my 100 cents :wink:

26

Hi From Pittsburgh PA,

This is very exciting to read how thought out the “Games of the Future” could be. If any of these ideas or combination of ideas are used we are in for a very challenging season. I’m a newbie to the whole FIRST competition, and truly enjoyed the experience, 08 season Pgh regional.

Here’s a thought that isn’t game related but maybe appreciated by the teams. A dedicated team photo spot, fitted with the current years graphics and of course FIRST regional banners and game pieces as props, for the teams to take those all to important team photos.

I understand that some venues are very tight during competition. But during the finals a quick connect rack with a back drop could be assembled. Then the teams that are interested could use the area in a orderly fashion. Our team along with every other team, at the same time it seemed, tried to take team photos with mixed results.

Team photos are more than souvenirs. They are used for marketing, recruiting and fundraising. The FIRST organization could also benefit from this simple addition. There’s no way, once the teams leave the event, to recreate that moment in time or even gather everyone evolved at one time. Every emotion is experienced during the events, what better way to capture the future engineers before there famous feats.

Dave

Go Pens!!!

27

I’ve been doing a bit of design work for something along these lines: Take the Stack Attack ramp, but instead of having an upper flat area, drop that level down to the floor, in order to create a “trench” of sorts in the center of the field. Near the center of the trench would be two heavy duty steel pipes linking the two sides of the trench. Scoring would be similar to Aim High, except there would be two goals on each side, slightly lower than AIM High, and the scoring object would be foam cubes, rather than balls. Each block fired into the goals would be different values of points, based on the size of the block. In order to aid auto-scoring, a cheap RFID chip would be placed in each block, with a small directional reader in each goal. Small blocks would be worth less points, large blocks more.

For the endgame, whichever team was fully supported on the pipes, and nothing else, would gain a 50ish point bonus, enough to swing the game heavily in either direction.

EDIT: Here’s a render of what I mean: http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2220/2510509904_6060b72ee6_o.jpg

28

Good lord. So it’s like king of the hill at the end, except the loser ends up upside down in pieces…

29

I might as well take a crack at this. I know the diagram could be clearer, but things are described better below.

What I particularly like about this game is that there are so many strategies. It is quite a challenge to build a robot that can do everything, but less experienced teams can still contribute to the scoring effort, like in this year’s game. (Yay, lapbots!) In addition, the human players have an important role because they may be able to access a scoring location that their robots cannot.

Hold 'Em High

Field:

  • The game is played on a 27’ x 54’ carpeted playing field. The field is split into three zones: a red zone, a blue zone, and a neutral zone. The red and blue zones make up the 12’ of the field in front of the red and blue alliance stations, respectively. The 30’ in the middle makes up the neutral zone.
  • Two of the four corners contain 7-foot “posts” in the shape of isosceles right triangles, and are fenced along the edges of the field. The other two corners contain “chutes” through which game pieces can be delivered to the human players. Neither the robots nor the human players may break the plane of the chute.
  • The center of the field contains the “orb roller.” The orb roller is an hollow, open-top 5’ cube which holds the game pieces during the autonomous period and releases them at the beginning of the teleoperated period by releasing Plexiglas panels. The inside of the orb roller is sloped in the shape of an inverted V, allowing the game pieces to roll onto the field when the panels are released.
  • The field also contains two “pedestals,” or 7-foot square carts on wheels that are 2.5 feet high. Each one has a small “lip” to keep the game pieces in the cart when it is stationary, but can cause them to fall off if the pedestal is pushed too hard.
  • In addition, a 10-foot high “bridge,” made up of two lengths of pipe spaced 6 inches apart, goes across the long end of the field. Since game pieces can be scored on the bridge, it has stoppers to prevent the game pieces from leaving the zones.

Game Pieces:

  • The game pieces are 60 standard air-filled playground 8.5-inch diameter kickballs known as “orbs.” They come in five colors: white, red, blue, green, and yellow. White orbs are standard, red and blue orbs only score for their corresponding alliance, green orbs are covered with reflective tape and used during the autonomous period, and the yellow orbs are the rarest and therefore the most valuable.
  • There are 35 white orbs, 8 red orbs, 8 blue orbs, 3 yellow orbs, and 6 green orbs.

Autonomous:

  • After the robots are placed on the field, the pedestals are positioned as shown in the attached picture. The six green orbs are placed within the neutral zone, three on each side of the pedestals, and the other 54 orbs are placed into the orb roller.
  • During the 15-second autonomous period, robots must find and grab the green orbs. If a robot is in possession of a green orb, it earns 5 points per green orb for its alliance. If a robot is holding three green orbs, it earns a 10-point bonus for its alliance (including the 15 from the orbs).

Teleoperated:

  • The teleoperated period is, as usual, 2 minutes long. At the start, the orb roller releases the orbs, allowing the orbs to roll off the slopes in the orb roller. During this time, orbs may be scored by robots placing them or by the human players tossing them.

Scoring:

  • Orbs have the following point values:
    White: 2 points
    Red: 3 points for red alliance, 0 points for blue alliance
    Blue: 3 points for blue alliance, 0 points for red alliance
    Green: 5 points during autonomous, 0 points during teleoperated
    Yellow: 10 points
    Orbs are scored if they are completely or partially within an alliance’s zone. Orbs may be on the floor, on a pedestal, on a post, on the bridge, or possessed by a robot.
  • The following multipliers exist depending on the height of the CENTER of the ball:
    x1: less than 2’
    x2: at least 2’, less than 5’ (pedestal)
    x3: at least 5’, less than 10’ (post)
    x5: at least 10’ (bridge)
    A robot on top of a pedestal (yes, I’m serious - think 2004 or 2007) at the end of a match earns 20 bonus points for its alliance.
  • Note: The scoring may seem complicated, but it is feasible using some benchmarks on the field, say, the pedestals, posts, alliance station walls, etc.

    field1.JPG


    field1.JPG
30

The one thing I am going to say (well, a few things) about the above are:

1: That’s a lot of multipliers!
2: Which size playground ball?
3: The bridge is actually spanning the long side of the field, in the middle.
4: More room would be nice.

31

Interactive Arenas… Its designed/built for it… use it :smiley:

Your buddy BOB

32

My idea is to have robots play a variant of dodge ball. I spent some time thinking about how this might play as an FRC game and I think it matches Dave’s criteria nicely. Anyways my thoughts are documented in the attachment in order to avoid a very long post but I would be happy to discuss it.

Robot Dodgeball.doc (45.5 KB)


Robot Dodgeball.doc (45.5 KB)

33

I understand your logic for having 5 robots on the field at a time, but I think 5 is a little unrealistic. Maybe 4. But 5 seems a little crazy.

34

Okay, here is my shot at a game design. No idea yet what it would be called.

Duration
20 sec. autonomous
120 sec. teleop

Pieces
12" diameter balls of 4 colors -red, white, blue, and green
There are - 28 green balls, 28 red balls, 28 white balls, and 28 blue balls.

In addition, there is 1 (one) 40" diameter ball that is black.

Field
Field is 27’ wide by 54’ long. A 10’ long area extending from the driver stations is dedicated as the alliance’s “home zone”; opposing robots CAN enter this zone. In the middle “no man’s land”, there are four pez-dispenser-like towers. Every five seconds during the match, a ball is rolled onto the field from each of the towers. The balls that each of the towers contains is randomized prior to the match.

There are two goals on either end of the field, they are colored to belong to the alliance that starts on that side. One is a high trough that is placed 7’ off of the ground. The other is placed 3’ off the ground, but can be raised up to 5’ by one of the robots staying on a pressure sensitive pad that is against their alliance wall. The goal will fall back to its 3’ rest state if a robot does not stay on the pad. The pad is a ramp inclinced at a small angle so that balls cannot rest on it. The scoring troughs separate the alliance zones from the no man’s land.

The 40" ball starts in the middle of the field on top of a 4’ high stand.

Allianances/Starting Positions
There are three robots on each side. Robots must be against their alliance wall to start.

Scoring
Knocking the 40" ball off of the stand during autonomous mode is worth 30 points. Each 12" ball in the alliance’s high trough at the end of autonomous is worth 5 points. Each 12" ball in the alliance’s low trough at the end of autonomous is worth 3 points.

At the end of the match, each 12" ball in the alliance’s high trough at the end of the match is worth 5 points. Each 12" ball in the alliance’s low trough at the end of the match is worth 2 points. (Note: balls that were scored in the trough during autonoumous are included again in the end-of-the-match scoring)

At the end of the match, having all 28 of the balls of one color in an alliance’s combined troughs is worth 20 bonus points.

At the end of the match, having the 40" ball in an alliance’s home zone is worth 10 points.

Balls can be removed from the troughs by an opposing alliance.

35

Just an idea I had today:

http://www.comrecycling.net/IMG_8760.JPG

Maybe the game could be some variation of Donkey Kong? :slight_smile:

36

DK + a game of king of the hill? XD Epic

37

I like the idea of a pit in this post:

Adding to that, what if the “end game” feature was not to get up high as in previous games (2000, 2004) but to get low (aka: an area where a robot could park & hit a button in the driver’s station & lower an elevator device of some kind to basically put the robot into a pit but also have that area of the pit now not be able to be used as a flat portion of the ramp.
(Think 2003 with the surface of the top of the ramp now half the size because a robot decided to get points by lowering the robot scoring portion of the ramp to score, thus leaving less room to drive for the rest of the teams.)
With self and/or alliance scoring, comes some sacrifice for everyone else, including same alliance members.
(Wow, typing that last sentence gives me horrible, but also odd ddeja-vu of 2001 with the large ball multipliers & individual score advantage) LOL

I like the idea of another overpass (as shown above), but what if one was used for the human players?? Basically we would have set positions for an object, but on a rack above the playing field.
The object of that part would be once the object pice is placed randomly, the human players could roll a ball in the direction of that to see who could get closest to the spot or on it.
Think of a grid of tubing & one designated as the scoring square. When the human players roll a ball over the grid, the alliances color ball which lands on the spot gets a lot of points (or a higher bonus multiplier) where as the farther away you are from it you get less points.
You could even have a grid of about say 10 x 10 spots, & a rail like in the post linked above from each corner of the field & from the middle letting human players feed team color balls into that grid so that all 4 or 6 teams can get in on the action.
Ok, so this doesn’t require skill that much, but if this was treated as a multipler or bonus, this could add a lot of excitement & unpredictibility to the scoring at the end.
Think “crazy ball board game” from a carnival.
http://www.jacksgames.com/images/kbb4.jpg

38

I think next year’s game should simply incorporate a more balanced defense/offense objective. Overdrive, to me, was a more offensive game and not much defense as previous more exciting games. By adding the defensive role it will give veteran teams the chance to play complex offensive and or defensive strategies, however it will give rookie teams the chance to stick to an easy defensive strategy, if wanted. This will add up to a more “equal opportunity” for all different types of teams.

39

One word - Pinball

40

Throw the trash over the barrier style game:

Game Peices: 2 sets of diffrent colored 6" balls and foam cylinders or something simelar
Game Play: The robots pick up the balls, and have to hurl them over the barrier to gain points, If you knock the cylinders off of a barrier that seperates the two sides, then you get extra points. the teams can offensively play by throwing your colored balls onto the oppisite team/allience side or the teams can defensively play by throwing the oppisite teams balls back to their side.
Playing feild: A ring with a 6-7 ft. barrier in the middle
**scoring:**You get points for each one of your teams balls that are on the other teams side or you can get extra points for each foam cylander that your team knocked down.