Omni Mania

Im a mentor this year for my team (bagelbytes) and im reseaching options for the team during the off season

Presently im working on the usefulness or the possiblities of using a omni drive. for all of you out there that have used or know about omni drives what are things that i should know.

ups?
downs?
Difficulty?
Speed?
Torque?
Complications?
Ups vs. Other drives?
Where to get them…?
or how to build them?

and any other thing i should know if i am to construct on before season start to try it out

I realize im asking broad range on questions, so take your pick at what to answer

Thanks in advance:yikes:

-Oscar-

Oscar,
You have a lot of questions. There are several different applications of omnidrives (sometimes called holonomic drives).
To date, the most sophisticated omnidrive system that I have seem in FIRST competitions have come from team 111 and 45 (or is it 47?). Team 111 (Wildstang) had a four wheel steering drive system that competed last year. You can get more information from their website.
The other bot from team 45 (or47) competed several years ago and functioned very well. It used two steerable drive wheels and caster.
Other applications have been used and each has advantages and disadvantages. You have to decide where your limitations reside. Manufacturing? Design? Cost? Weight? Software?
I know this didn’t answer all of your questions, but I really recommend checking out the Wildstang website. It has a ton of information. A Google search on omnidrives will also inundate you with info.
Good luck.

*Originally posted by Warren Boudreau *
**Oscar,
You have a lot of questions. There are several different applications of omnidrives (sometimes called holonomic drives).
To date, the most sophisticated omnidrive system that I have seem in FIRST competitions have come from team 111 and 45 (or is it 47?). Team 111 (Wildstang) had a four wheel steering drive system that competed last year. You can get more information from their website.
The other bot from team 45 (or47) competed several years ago and functioned very well. It used two steerable drive wheels and caster.
Other applications have been used and each has advantages and disadvantages. You have to decide where your limitations reside. Manufacturing? Design? Cost? Weight? Software?
I know this didn’t answer all of your questions, but I really recommend checking out the Wildstang website. It has a ton of information. A Google search on omnidrives will also inundate you with info.
Good luck. **

Many teams have used swerve or crab style drive systems, but the two that Warren mentioned, ChiefDelphi (47) and Wildstang (111), are the leaders in this area. If I remember correctly, team 47 was the first to do this in 1998. Team 45 has never attempted swerve or crab drive… we’re tank people like Warren’s team.

Andy B.

Sorry for the false credit Andy.

We may not be tank people much longer, if the game keeps changing in the directions it did last year.

Treads were not as important since the majority of the game didn’t require mondo pushing power.

Live and learn.

since we have no idea what the game will be this year
we have no idea what type of drive or powertrain will be optimum for this years game.

One danger here: if you put a lot of time and effort into developing an omni drive now, then you will be likely to use it on this years bot, even if its not a good match.

*Originally posted by KenWittlief *
**since we have no idea what the game will be this year
we have no idea what type of drive or powertrain will be optimum for this years game.

One danger here: if you put a lot of time and effort into developing an omni drive now, then you will be likely to use it on this years bot, even if its not a good match. **

The advantages of prototyping a drive system like swerve or killough are numerous. The most important however is that it is just another way students can learn :wink:

We used the 4 Wheel Steering in 2002.

The advantages are the extreme maneuverability. Most likely the only robot that can effectively block you is another 4 wheel steering robot. Or you may need the maneuverability for the manipulation which is what 47 used in 2000 to move parallel to the wall while the ball grabber pointed at the wall.

Disadvantages however are the extra motors required for steering, as well as the amount of power you can put down to the ground. Typically the wheels are not super wide or grippy so that you can effectively turn them in place.

To make it easiest we made the drive pieces modular and interchangeable. The steering stayed intact and you only removed the power module with one bolt. It proved to be very effective.

*Originally posted by KenWittlief *
**since we have no idea what the game will be this year
we have no idea what type of drive or powertrain will be optimum for this years game.

One danger here: if you put a lot of time and effort into developing an omni drive now, then you will be likely to use it on this years bot, even if its not a good match. **

… and then there is always the possibility that people involved with the design of the game for next year actually read through these posts, looking for ideas…

Just imagine if the following hypothetical conversation were actually true:
W: "hey, it looks like all the veteran teams are building “Team Whizz-Bang”-style drive systems this year. They are all spending all summer building prototypes and perfecting the designs. All those poor rookies are going to be left in the dust!!!
D1: “well, won’t they be surprised when they see the new game and see that “Team Whizz-Bang”-style drives are absolutely useless when driving across a platter of cooked rice.” All that time and effort spent working on the wrong problem! And after we TOLD THEM not to make any assumptions about the next game!
D2: “heh heh heh heh!”

But, of course, none of the game designers actually read the CD posts, and even if they did, they wouldn’t be that devious… :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

*Originally posted by dlavery *
**… and then there is always the possibility that people involved with the design of the game for next year actually read through these posts, looking for ideas…

Just imagine if the following hypothetical conversation were actually true:
W: "hey, it looks like all the veteran teams are building “Team Whizz-Bang”-style drive systems this year. They are all spending all summer building prototypes and perfecting the designs. All those poor rookies are going to be left in the dust!!!
D1: “well, won’t they be surprised when they see the new game and see that “Team Whizz-Bang”-style drives are absolutely useless when driving across a platter of cooked rice.” All that time and effort spent working on the wrong problem! And after we TOLD THEM not to make any assumptions about the next game!
D2: “heh heh heh heh!”**

I am just waiting for the game that is entirely dependent on climbing… monkey bars perhaps? :rolleyes:

::shudders:: Don’t give them ideas!

*Originally posted by dlavery *
**
But, of course, none of the game designers actually read the CD posts, and even if they did, they wouldn’t be that devious… :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: **

Is it just me?
Or did anyone else read that and get a tingle?

shifty eyes

Good thing we’ve got that hovercraft/submarine/biplane drivetrain completed. :wink:

*Originally posted by JVN *
**Good thing we’ve got that hovercraft/submarine/biplane drivetrain completed. :wink: **
Ahh yes but don’t forget about the traction on cooked rice. That’s a tricky one. However, I think rice would be to obvious, I’m betting they go with something more like a penne pasta.

keep the ideas omni ideas coming plz

lol its risk to invest in a drive ahead of time but its risk im willing to take so plz anyone wiht omni expirience speak up and by the way i looked up wild stang now and along time ago and i still dont see any omni related info, maybe someone could direct me with a link perhaps?

*Originally posted by dlavery *
**W: "hey, it looks like all the veteran teams are building “Team Whizz-Bang”-style drive systems this year. They are all spending all summer building prototypes and perfecting the designs. All those poor rookies are going to be left in the dust!!!
D1: “well, won’t they be surprised when they see the new game and see that “Team Whizz-Bang”-style drives are absolutely useless when driving across a platter of cooked rice.” All that time and effort spent working on the wrong problem! And after we TOLD THEM not to make any assumptions about the next game!
D2: “heh heh heh heh!”
**

I think what everyone really wants to know, Dave, is whether you’re D1 or D2 :slight_smile:

Woa… that would be awesome to see this robot just kinda spinning out and sinking deeper and deeper into a 3 ft bin of cooked rice. :slight_smile:

lots of info about various omni drives can be found in this thread.

This thread includes listings of all applicable drive trains, discussion and debate about the various strengths and weaknesses of each drive, a place to obtain good omniwheels, etc. etc. Even some argument over whether or not a 4-wheel killough can deliver 100% power.

read up in there.

Thanks that is more useful

I read in the past threads about 111 wildstang being a serve drive… i thought it was a true omni drive with omni wheels

Can someone verify of clarify?

In the 2002 and 2003 seasons Wildstang (111) has used a crab steering system. Their drive system was powered by 2 Drill motors and 2 FP motors (one motor driving a different wheel), and their modules were rotated using 2 Globe motors. Check here for 2003 pictures http://www2.wildstang.org/2003/inventor/photographs.html

In 2003, The Sea Dawgs (258) used a similar system, but we used 2 Drill motors and 2 CIM motors to drive (1 per wheel), and 2 Globe motors to rotate each pair of modules.

<edit>
That link into Wildstang’s Inventor Award submission is a really neat place to look at the intracacies of their robot. Their 2002 submission was great, as well.
</edit>

<edit_2>
I’m going to find a few pictures of 258’s 2003 system and link to them a little later.
</edit_2>

*Originally posted by Bill Gold *
**
<edit>
That link into Wildstang’s Inventor Award submission is a really neat place to look at the intracacies of their robot. Their 2002 submission was great, as well.
</edit>
**

Any chance the 2002 submission is still out there somewhere? I’d love to see it. Heck, I’d keep a copy on my computer if I could.

I’d love to see more teams publish inventor awards of this quality. I think we’d see an overall increase in bot construction and technology if everyone shared like 111.