One Championship vs Two

#1champs4eva

65 Likes

What if… the entire season was shifted forwards… and champs is also moved up to give more time between standardized tests?

(Wasnt there also news about how SATs would be shorter and colleges/unis moving towards not considering them? Idk they dont matter to me dont follow)

You cant make everyone happy (december usually means snow for the north, etc).

2 Likes

1 Champs is the best way to go.

The goal is inspiration right? And one HUGE event with (edit: well, in a perfect world…) sky-high production value, seeing all the teams you’ve watched on TBA time and again - that’s what one champs vs 2 buys you.

And, for the competition oriented among us, it allows us to hone in on an actual champion.

The hardest part is logistics - need to find a bigger space to combine them without the eligibility changes, possibly limiting the number of cities it can be in and likely driving up costs both for FIRST and for the teams in attendance.

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tbf 2 x $12 is still only $24

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Imo would be awesome one champs, with an extra division for FRC and FTC(maybe even two here).
FTC need more slots at worlds asap

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sigh

2champs. Maybe a return to one should be in order if a venue that can support enough teams is available, but the state of qualification this year was just bad, between wildcard confusion, disappearing district slots, excellent teams getting snubbed, and a significant change to what lets teams qualify to begin with.

I don’t want split championships either, but unless FIRST finds a way to get better advancement for Regional teams in the immediate future or a venue capable of supporting 800 teams can be found, I don’t see a way that we can have one championship that provides a similar qualification experience to the way it was in previous years.

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Agreed on half your points.

The qualifying experience in regionals, small districts, and large districts is wildly different.

Whether or not we return to single champs permanently, switching to a universal points based qualification model would be great.

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1 champs is the best. Its the most inspirational. The FIRST community is better united together for the finale.

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One champs with universal district points.

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There were over 600 teams that attended 2016 championships. This has been done before, it’s not outside of the realm of possibilities

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I’m all in favor of one championship, but the logistics for this year were not reasonable. My team chose early in the year not to attend championships even if qualified. We had a week 6-7 turnaround already and 6-7-8 for us wasn’t going to work. I saw NEFIRST put in a lot of work to make going to Houston viable for some teams with pre-qualifying slots and getting a truck for all the qualifying teams’ robots. Despite that, many teams still declined spots and most teams that attended NE DCMP were offered a slot.
If one championship is going to happen in future years, the decision needs to be made earlier and a lot more time needs to be spent to figure out how to get as many teams as possible to attend. FIRST is all about inspiration and the fact that many teams were unable to attend because of logistics just disappoints me.

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Yes, its not about trophies. But it makes it easier for the general public that this program is supposed to be a sport and not a science fair or a tech expo when there is a single World champion. Yes, alliances also never crown one true winner, and there is chance in how teams are allocated to divisions and schedules are generated, but one of the other leading principles of FIRST is coopertition. Alliances emphasize the importance of teamwork.

What would a new freshman stepping into FRC for the first time want, to be a World champion, or to be a half-World champion?

1 Like

I think 2 champs can work, but there needs to be more focus on qualifying alliance captain level teams. Most years, CA doesn’t send many competitive robots to champs after they all get slaughtered in semis by Einstein alliance captains. Universal points needs to happen soon, regardless of the number of champs.
The 2019 championship was the last one I attended, and it felt far less competitive than 2015. A lot of good teams simply aren’t playing.

The downside is that this makes reserving travel a nightmare because it would need to be done Week 6 for most teams.

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1+. I hear there’s this place in St. Louis that could act as a central location, host 8 fields, have Pits, FLL and FTC, speakers… all in the same place.

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And in order to accommodate that, they had to move FTC and FLL to entirely separate venues.

I’m going to counter this, because the vast majority of high school sports have no world championship or even national championships.

You hit the nail on the head here. FIRST Champs has a very long list of requirements, and each line item significantly narrows down the options. This, I’m sure, is one of the reasons we moved to a convention center style arena rathe than a football dome, because the number of football domes attached to convention centers within a reasonable walk is a VERY small list. And you don’t have much bargaining power when you have basically no competing offers. As it stands now, America’s Center in St. Louis is the 6th largest in the US.

And while you might be able to find larger convention space than we are in now, you have to look at other factors, including being able to fit all FRC teams on the same level as the fields, hotel space available, ample load-out logistical space to accommodate 800 teams, near an airport that is easy to fly into, space for several fields and spectator seating, and the list goes on. This is not a trivial task. Oh, and it has to be within a two week window, because they are locked in by exams on one side, and competition season on the other.

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There’s a lot to love about a single championship.

The level of play at this championship was better than any before (even 2016 and before).
Seeing teams and robots from all over function is an incredible experience. It’s awesome to see some of these mechanisms first hand, and to observe how different teams operate on and off the field.
Seeing people from all over is awesome. You get to rekindle old friendships and ignite new ones. It’s great for socializing both as a mentor or student.

But, I also come at this from the perspective of a team that’s sending off a graduating class in 2022 that will never have attended championship. A lot of that is, obviously, due to the pandemic. And two champs wouldn’t have helped us this year regardless (although it would have for plenty of worthy others in our area). Ultimately, it’s not the mentor socialization or incredible qual matches that really matter. It’s allowing students to have this experience in the first place. And I’m not sure how we can get more students this experience without expanding champs in some fashion (which likely means multiple championships).

Hopefully FIRST can find a way to keep as much of the positive experiences from a 1champ in a 2champs future. Find ways to allow for cross-pollination, better qualification methods, and the scheduling and logistical hurdles.

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Wow I’m so surprised that participants in teams that were unaffected by the qualification changes were happy we went back to one champs with half as many teams

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I’d like to note that there’s also some distinction to be made regarding venues, as two champs doesn’t increase your venue options. FIRST has made it decently clear that 2 champs is simply to bring in more teams, and makes venue selection all around more difficult. Sort of self-competition going on there.

2 smaller championships is basically like the worst option too, unless you go to superregionals with 3-4 and a “proper” championship, but there isn’t really time for that.

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In Houston they’re not much farther split up than they were in STL. They haven’t been together side by side at least not that I remember as far back as 2013. And I don’t think it would work out well to have the different levels all in one central spot, it would get more chaotic than it all already is

1 Like

I believe they were more referring to the time that FTC was a couple miles away in a separate building across town rather than just being a floor or two away.