FIRST was in a tough spot. They had to find a balance between the realities of advanced travel plans and having a “Championship Event” (note that FIRST has stopped calling it the National Championship) worthy of the name.
I think they have done a great job with a difficult proposal.
In a sense, FIRST has said you have to be lucky (even/odd) or good enough in past years (Chairman’s Winner, Finalist, Founding team – staying in for 10 years is a worthy achievement, or points).
This is more or less the teams that get to go to the Championship Event. BUT… they have said if you are GOOD ENOUGH THAT A CHAMPIONSHIP EVENT WOULD SEEM HOLLOW WITHOUT YOU, YOU CAN GO. To make this claim FIRST has set up some criteria. If you meet the criteria, you can make the last minute plans to go.
BUT…
…It is my sense that FIRST tried to limit these teams that need to make last minute plans. So they made their “past year” criteria and their “lucky” such that the overwhelming majority of teams that qualify via “good enough this year” criteria would have been going to the Championship Event anyway.
So… I can assure you that if I have anything to say about it, Chief Delphi will be going to several regionals and trying to earn every award we can. More than that, I will encourage my teammates not to view us as displacing any team with any awards that we happen to bring home.
I think you are right on with your views on this one. It it good to see someone look at this issue rationally and not just from the perspective of how does this hurt me.
Yes - Everybody should compete to their fullest cabability at every event they attend. Nothing more to be said here.
No - FIRST did not (probably could not) keep the number of teams making “last minute” travel arrangements small.
You are probably correct in guessing that many of the teams that win regionals/awards this year will already have qualified some other way. But, it does not seem likely that FIRST will let the vacant slots created by the “overqualified” teams remain vacant. Those spots will probably be filled from a wait list of even teams or a wait list of Regional runners up (or both).
I would guess that by the time registration closes in December, there will be somewhere in the neighborhood of 177 teams registered. This is not an “overwhelming majority” of the 288 teams that FIRST/Disney is expecting. Over 100 teams will have to finalize their travel plans on relatively short notice. I hope that they can figure out how to do it, or the Championship will be a lot smaller than we expect.
Hi,
I can’t really write anything as elaborate as Joe or PJ but I just want to say that I agree. Obvisouly they had to limit Nationals. It was getting wicked packed and we all know it. I don’t think that people would have been much happier with a random lottery, or anything really random. I don’t want to sound stuck up or anything because every team works wicked hard to get where they are now. I know it, we fundraise, we work all year round… and so do other teams that may not have qualified or have a huge team and get awards and win comeptitions and stuff. We all have our good years and our bad years, its going to be intersting with the limits and stuff but I don’t know we can take this postivly some how. Thanks good luck to everyone
-Katie Atiyeh
HELLOOOooooo
Well this is different this year!!! I think all will work out, this is FIRST and WE can do anything when we put our minds to it.
Many Regionals
Travel plans to FL
Short notice
and build a ROBOT???
TIE-DYE SOCKS
WHAT A LIFE
This is great I can hardly wait for JAN 2002
Hey Joe-
Your rational explanation above does give one perspective of FIRST’s proclamation and is probably very close to the reasoning they used in making their decision. But I want to know just how you get to be one of those “teams which leave FIRST hollow without you” that got special treatment? Not every team can be a dynamic right hand to FIRST but I know many of them have been active promoters of the competition. Not all teams can win the Chairman’s Award or travel to lots of regionals to amass the required points. I guess $$$ is important to be successful in FIRST.
The competition has always been presented as trying to give the FIRST experience to as many kids as possible. FIRST should look for a much larger venue, split to East and West Coast- heck, do something to accommodate all the kids. Plans for next year to this end should be in process now ( and I hope they are) It will be a difficult job- maybe impossible. My team, and I’m sure many others, would be happy to help if we can. But to look to recruit more teams and have nowhere to put them makes no sense.
To close- would your opinion still be the same if your team was excluded, despite all they have done for the competition? The last minute decision came as a punch in the face to many of us- and it hurt!
My thought process was similar, but I did not zero in as much on the thought that most of the qualifiers would have qualified this year anyhow. Also, this way a perennial “good” team can have one “off” year and still make the show.
I figure the Chief for four regionals this year, Right?
I am sorry that limiting the Championship Event has hurt your team. I am sure that your team is a very good team that has done a lot to help FIRST.
BUT… I have been lobbying for limiting the size of the Nationals (now know as Championship Event) since Ladder Logic (1998).
How would I feel if my team was one of those shut out? Well, I suppose I would feel lousy, but it would not change my position on the issue.
Again, I want everyone to remember that FIRST was (and is) in a tough position and did their best to make a compromise that was in the long term best interest of FIRST.
As to this announcement being a last minute thing, I really disagree. I am not sure what happened at the other Team Forums, but at the one in Michigan, Bob & Lori were very clear that some sort of limits on the size of the competition formerly known as the Nationals was coming. They did everything but take out an ad in the local papers! If a team didn’t get it from that Team Forum, they just weren’t listening.
Beyond this, frequent Chief Delphi Forum readers know that this was a hot topic of discussion right after the Team Forums.
I don’t think this was a last minute surprise.
Joe J.
P.S. As to Bill Beatty suggesting that Chief Delphi was going to go to 4 regionals, I am sad to say that it is not in the current plan. With the current auto industry meltdown, I have been told that 2 is our limit (our local one and another within a bus drive distance). I still have hopes of being able to make the case for one more but I am not overly confident.
Beyond this, frequent Chief Delphi Forum readers know that this was a hot topic of discussion right after the Team Forums.
I don’t think this was a last minute surprise.
I am a frequent reader on the forum, and I hate to admit it, but I did see the limiting of the Nationals coming. Just not on this large of a scale! They cut over half the number of teams as there was last year.
As for this not being a last minute suprise, I sincerely doubt if anyone could for see FIRST combining pre-qualification, a points system, in-season qualification, and odd/even team number restrictions into their registration all at once! It’s almost like they were reading the forums and incorporated all of our ideas at once.
Each one of the restrictions they used were fine with me to use (except odd/even team numbers…I still don’t understand why FIRST used that!) would actually be good ideas alone with some tweaking. But putting all of them in at once just makes a big confusing mess.
I realize FIRST was growing too big too fast to continue using the Disney venue as it was. I heard the rumors too and follow this forum daily all year long. I unfortunately was working out of state during the NH forum so missed it and maybe there more was said than I was privy to. The decision announcement was sweeping and devastating and should have been made right after the Nationals last year to give teams time to adjust their plans and timetables. Anyway- the deed is done, we all have to make the best of it and we will.
But I really think FIRST did damage with this one. A lot of teams weren’t too happy about the game last season and were grumbling about that. Then to be hit with the announcement as it was - well it will be interesting to see who continues.
Looking at the Rutgers Regionals where we go it seems like most of the long time favorites are there and we look forward to seeing our old friends. But after two great seasons in the sun of Orlando there WILL be something missing if we don’t qualify.
Oddly, in this our 6th year BMS has offered even more support for the team than they have in the past and we were all set to go to more regionals, Fla, mentor new teams, do Lego League- the whole program. Now we are reexamining our direction and cutting back and looking to 2003 as a long term project.
We ain’t done yet! But I see a long road ahead…
I am sorry that limiting the Championship Event has hurt your team. I am sure that your team is a very good team that has done a lot to help FIRST.
**
:eek:
This is true these new “Invitational” rules have hurt many team like us these are the prior years 1992-2000. they worked their butts off to win the “Championship” event in those years prior and many promoting FIRST whenever they can makes me wonder if what me and team 25 (2000 national champs) mean anything to them and the last time i checked you call something a championship event that when you have the best of the best, not the best of the select few and even numbered teams.!!!
*Originally posted by tjrage_25 *
** But putting all of them in at once just makes a big confusing mess. **
After the game last year I don’t really think FIRST can get much more cunfusing. I do think that putting all the ideas together at once is really rough especially all in the first year of actually having a limited Championship.
*Originally posted by Carolyn Duncan *
**
After the game last year I don’t really think FIRST can get much more cunfusing. I do think that putting all the ideas together at once is really rough especially all in the first year of actually having a limited Championship. **
I think I may have mentioned this somewhere else already, but while FIRST may have chosen a confusing way of selecting teams for nationals, based on what their goals were when they developed the system of qualifying, they did the best they could, for these reasons:
At least at the MI forum, it was a general consensus that you could not solely base qualifying on performance in the current year’s competition. If they did, the problem of the few teams this year who may have to make last-minute plans for nationals would expand to everybody. Thus, the qualification criteria based on previous years.
At the same time, if a team performed extremely well this year at a regional competition, it doesn’t seem right to say to them, “OK, you did great this year, so you can go to Nationals NEXT year.” Thus, the qualification criteria based on this year’s regionals. Yes, it does put a little more last-minute pressure on some teams to make travel arrangements, but as I’ve said before, this is no different than any other HS sports team qualifying for state or nationals, and then having to come up with the funding to get there.
Even with all the past year qualifying and this year’s qualifying, if you figure it all out, there’s a lot of overlap there, and then teams that are no longer in the competition take the number down even further. And based on the comments I’ve seen here, it’s a general consensus that part of the draw of the National Competition is its size. Therefore, in an attempt to keep Nationals close to its previous size, they needed some way to get additional teams there. Implementing an even/odd structure like they have gives every team a chance of getting to nationals every year, and not limiting the “wild card” slots to those teams that register at 8:01 on opening day every year.
Is the system perfect? By no means. However, considering the goals that FIRST had in front of them when they were developing this system(as little last-minute planning as possible, reward this year’s award and event winners, give as many other teams a chance to get in as possible), I think they did the best they could with what they had to work with.
Also, for those teams or team members who feel that their FIRST season won’t be complete without a trip down to Disney, I pose this to you: make your reservations now for Nationals. If your performance this year provides you with the opportunity to compete, then I congratulate you and wish you the best of luck down in Florida. If, however, you do not qualify, still make the trip down to Disney, but before you do, e-mail FIRST and tell them that you want to volunteer at the event. Their staff of about 20 will have been traveling all over the country for the past 4 weeks, and pulling off an event the size of Disney is no small task. They can use all the help they can get. One of the teams I am currently assisting has openly said that they will not be going down to Florida this year. Is that stopping me? No…
The game is set, the damage done and we are where we are. Yes, it isn’t perfect- more so for some than others. So guys lets move on. It makes no sense to continue beating the subject to death because it isn’t going to change. We know what we have to do for the season, we’ll do it. Nuff said.
As for the team going to Florida as volunteers- nice idea but a bit naieve. School boards generally frown upon granting large groups of students time off for Florida volunteering. And if we wanted to volunteer for something, a local blood drive or Red Cross fund raiser would be a far more appreciated event these days…
teams registered. This is not an “overwhelming majority” of the 288 teams that FIRST/Disney is expecting. Over 100 teams will have to finalize their travel plans on relatively short notice. I hope that they can figure out how to do it, or the Championship will be a lot smaller than we expect.