operator standing on things?

Hi I am one of the drivers from Team 230. I am a little short. Anyways a couple of came up with the idea of having me stand on a milkcrate. So we tried it at the Scrimage at suffield high. We were told that we check if its legal or not. Does anyone know anything about this

No, you cannot have anything like a box to stand on that will give the driver an advantage over someone without such a device.

[edit] I couldnt find exactly where it says that this is illegal, but I know I saw it on the Q&A as well.

This is the closest I could find (I know it says HP, but the intent of the rule remains the same)

<G10> HUMAN PLAYERs cannot be aided by any object or other person. Violating this rule will result in the
disabling of the team’s ROBOT and the team will be disqualified.

I did see this question come up a few weeks ago - you might try the seach function - but Im pretty sure the answer is that you can only stand or sit on something if you have a medical condition that makes it necessary

other that being too short for your height

medically, your legs are too short only if they dont go all the way to your feet :^)

Lets be smart here…

The point of the rule is to prevent people from gaining an unfair advantage. If I offered my team a 12 foot extension ladder, that would be unfair. A small crate to help someone shorter than average is not what this rule is set out to stop from happening.

I would say that you should e-mail FIRST and tell them you will be bringing it so they can let the competitions guys know.


Dean said that the game is not fair and wasnt meant to be. The intent of this rule was to keep from giving anyone an advantage beyond their own physical characteristics. A box would do exactly that. Sure, it isnt “fair” that theyre shorter than average, but noone forced them to drive.

Hey, my human player is pretty short. I think I’ll ask FIRST to chop a foot or two off of every human player’s legs over 6’ tall… :rolleyes:

P.S. telling FIRST you’re bringing it wont do anything except let them know who to go to and tell that they can’t do such a thing.


check the Q&A forum on the first website - Im pretty sure this has come up and an offical answer already given (and it was no)

What is your legal height?

Wear big tall boots. And stuff your boots with cotton, or socks or somthing. If you can handel the uncomftorbleness of your feat, then it should work out.

lol you could get thos boots for people with dissablitys that have the 8" heels… but get 2 of them. i doubt anyone would notice :smiley:

Lol, and wear really long pants. :smiley:

Or, stop trying to think of ways to beat the rules (and make yourselves look bad) and just deal with them instead.

FIRST doesnt care how short you are, they only care about you not getting any kind of aid unless you’re handicapped and it’s absolutely necessary for your own safety.

Another reason Im sure they dont allow people standing on boxes is safety. The first time someone falls off and breaks their necks, FIRST gets sued.


trust me the height advantage doesnt help at all…

my first real year on a team (2000) i was human player for one round and one round only that was my sophmore year of hs, i was probobly 6’5, 6’6 and the one round i competed in, i almost got my team disqualifed… apperntly you cant put your whole hand over the player station barrier… (oops)

as for the rules, i know in the past it has been illeagal to have the driver/manipulator to have anything that can assist them… as for this year, i havent acctually sat down to read the complete rule book yet (better late then never right?) so i can only tell you that previous years, cory would be correct and standing on anything would be illeagal

I know as a matter of fact that there are 2 people on our team who can not see over the driver station. Is it their fault that they cannot see over? No.

I must admit I feel kind of strongly about this issue for another reason: I myself am handicapped. What you are saying is basically if someone is not tall enough to see over, “stinks for them”. I am deaf, and without an interpreter I would not be able to participate in the booth, but with the assistance of said interpreter I am able to truly be a part of our team.

Before competitions I speak to the head referee (usually on practice day) to inform him/her of my unique situation. I would suggest anyone else who is faced with a similar problem (too short, needs other accomodations, etc) speak to the head referee- those guys are oftentimes very nice and unless you’re making up a reason they will almost certainly allow you to have an accomodation.

each and every person who actually takes the time to build a robot, help out with animation, do chairmans, or just be a part of a team should not be prevented from partcipitating in the booth just because of an impediment. Let’s be real, nobody is perfect. If you were born without legs, I imagine you’d still want to be able to drive, right? Even if it means you might need an additional block to sit/stand on.

Just take a lousy minute before every competition to speak to the head referee. You’re not losing anything by doing this.

im a fairly short HP being around 5’11"… most at quincy were at least 2-6" taller than be… even that little amount gives you a more down approach onto the goals… so its all about skill you just have to adjust depending on your physical features


From Section 7 - The Tournament:
**<T08> **Special clothing and/or equipment will only be allowed on the playing field for those who demonstrate a need based on a physical disability.


P.S. - Don’t shoot the messenger… :slight_smile:

technically, if you’re under 5 ft, you qualify as a dwarf (whether you actually are one or not). I guess you could claim that as a physical dissability, but it would be a little bit of a stretch.

then again, i could be hallucinating, in which case you’ll just have to eat lots of vegetables in the next few weeks…

I honestly can’t believe the amount of ignorance and rudeness that has been shown in this forum. There was a driver from one team this last year that required a ramp to get to the controls (he used a wheelchair). Would you consider not letting him play? I hope not! Then why would you consider not allowing someone too short to see over the wall to use a stool?

Go back to the mission statement of FIRST. Isn’t it hard to become influenced by the great program if basic participation is disallowed based on disability?

Ok people, no one is saying that someone shouldnt be allowed to participate because they can’t see over the barrier. There’s a little bit of a difference between being too short to see above the barrier, and being “a little short” What does “a little short” mean? Well, the average height of a male is approximately 5’10". I would take “a little short” to mean between 5’4" and 5’10".

So, basically, what I (and others) have been trying to say is that if you just arent as tall as everyone else, you cant use something to boost your height up, regardless of whether it will give you an advantage over someone of “average” or taller height.

If someone is short enough that they can’t see over the barrier, then obviously FIRST should allow them to be able to stand on something so that they can see the field.

There’s a huge difference between being a dwarf, and being a few inches under the average height. Let’s all chill out and Im sure we’ll find that FIRST will allow an aid in the case of the first situation.


The medical definition of being a short statured (which is actually different being than a dwarf because a dwarf is unproportional) is 5’0" in a male and 4’6" in females.

I am 5ft 2