OSMTech Needs Written Support!!

Posted by Becky Sherman.

Student on team #27, Team Rush, from OSMTech Academy and DaimlerChrysler.

Posted on 7/11/2000 9:16 AM MST

Our sponsor has decided not to continue with OSMTech
Team 27, due to THEIR vision of FIRST. They (our past
sponsor and some colleagues) believe that the work
should ALL be done at the school, and that the kids
should be doing it! The person leading this parade also
believes that the students should be trained prior to
season, and better prepared … and that is the
teachers role!

What happens to the role of the engineer? Where is the
inspiration? Where did the ‘I’ go in FIRST?

Please send Kyle Hughes ([email protected])
a letter of support on your vision of FIRST and how
your team gets students involved. We would like to use
as much ammunition as we can get going in to fight our
case to maintain sponsorship! This needs to be done
quickly!

Also - if you know of any sponsors in Northern Oakland
County that would like to adopt an award winning team,
please let me know tha

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Coach on team #246, a FIRST-aholic, from John D. O’Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.

Posted on 7/11/2000 2:09 PM MST

In Reply to: OSMTech Needs Written Support!! posted by Becky Sherman on 7/11/2000 9:16 AM MST:

There are 2 reasons I agree with your sponsor’s vision of FIRST:

1.) I spent 4 years on a team with high engineer involvement

2.) I’ve moved on to a team with barely any

From '96-99 I was a member of 126 - Nypro/Clinton High School. That team is very likely to have a highly supportive company and group of employees; the engineers, PR, marketing, and shop floor employees all get involved, as well as personal involvement from the CEO and president and other high ranking employees… as well, several teachers from the high school are involved… it is a great thing to work side by side with them…

and last year and in 2001, i was involved with the team at Boston U. We were sponsored by NSTAR but they only gave $$… we have a few engineers involved, and although they were involved with some design, they mainly were just machinist since we had no machine tools at BU for our use… mainly it was the kids (high school and college) running the show… and it wasn’t until then that i was left to realize how UNPREPARED i was… i knew the stuff, sure, but i was having some trouble teaching that to the kids who really didn’t know (in '99 their were 7 on the team, in '00 we had over 20… and only 5 were returning) anything about what was going on…

that’s when i realized that although it is/was really cool to work with engineers, i learned more when i was prepared and forced to work on my own… the nights i did work like that back in high school came mostly when i was working with the teachers, or (of course) Jorge… the controls leader of our team…

and those were the nights that made me want to be an engineer, when i was doing and learning, and making things work on my own and people were available if i needed help… when i gave my speech at our awards banquet, it thanked many people, but at length thanked my teacher Paul Morrison for his support and guidance through it all…

in a nutshell, i agree with your sponsor… kids should be prepared in the off-season (i’ve always taken part in ‘mini-FIRST’ programs in the fall and the like) and that their is still INSPIRATION without ENGINEERS… their is no ‘right’ way to achieve the vision… all our sponsors are sheerly financial and the inspiration to our high school kids comes from the college students from BU, BC, and Wentworth as well as their peers…

I don’t think it is right though if your sponsor dropped you and/or you did not want them because they didn’t want to offer engineering support (or space)… you’re both looking for the same goal… maybe they can give you the money, and you can interest engineers from another local company… or you can discuss a possible ‘phase-out’ of the engineers and their support so it’s not just one drastic move… or you can be willing to try it out for a year and try to SHOW THEM how their support is needed… especially if it’s clear that they are interested in staying involved in FIRST…

The vision of FIRST is to inspire kids to pursue technology careers… how each school, company, and person achieves that goal is up to them… but we all want the same thing… i would suggest you work WITH them to get a compromise and see each others’ sides instead of working AGAINST them to have them see it your way…

STUDENTS CAN DO IT! There are plenty of student-run teams out there…

Posted by Patrick Seeney.

Student on team #469, Las Guerrillas, from Oakland Robotics and Lawrence Technological University and Magna Seating Systems, Nachi and Kuka Robotics.

Posted on 7/12/2000 8:57 AM MST

In Reply to: …the vision of FIRST… posted by colleen on 7/11/2000 2:09 PM MST:

: STUDENTS CAN DO IT! There are plenty of student-run teams out there…

Exactly, I agree 100%. We are one of those student run teams, and I along with many were surprised at the success students can achieve when they ar not afraid to attempt designing and building the robot with out major engineer involvement. We managed to finsish in the top 10% at our competitions that we attended. So it can be done, it is just that the work load is much greater.

Pat

Posted by Greg Mills.

Engineer on team #16, Baxter Bomb Squad, from Mountain Home and Baxter Healthcare.

Posted on 7/12/2000 10:26 AM MST

In Reply to: Re: …the vision of FIRST… posted by Patrick Seeney on 7/12/2000 8:57 AM MST:

: : STUDENTS CAN DO IT! There are plenty of student-run teams out there…

:I agree 100% - but thats not the point. The competition should be as Woodie says ‘a celebration instead of a competition’. If students are inspired by seeing what Engineers are capable of and they work harder in school because of that - then that is a good thing. If students are inspired by seeing what THEY are capable of and they work harder in school because of that - then that is a good thing. It doesn’t matter how the robot performs but what the students get out of the program.

I personally feel that we have opened up complete new worlds to students by exposing them to things that they didn’t have a clue exsisted. If you buy a gear and assemble it in the High School shop or you program and machine a gear on a five axis CNC machining center and then assemble it to a robot - the performance is the same. But is the experience for the student the same?

What is best for the ‘Inspiration’ of students is what is important.

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Coach on team #246, a FIRST-aholic, from John D. O’Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.

Posted on 7/12/2000 3:37 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: …the vision of FIRST… posted by Greg Mills on 7/12/2000 10:26 AM MST:

: What is best for the ‘Inspiration’ of students is what is important.

i totally agree… that’s why i suggested they team doesn’t totally go ‘against’ the idea of having a student/school based team… i never thought a student team would be what i wanted as a high schooler… and it wasn’t until i experienced it that i realized it’s benefits…

i understand the inspiration in engineer involvement… but i accept the inspiration everyone (engineers, teachers, students) can provide and truly think it’s worth a try… it was the most beneficial thing to experience that change…

inspiration is everywhere… from everyone… available for our experience… everyone involved in FIRST wants the same thing… therefore we should not necessarily look at anyone’s way of getting there as being the ‘wrong way’

Posted by Erin.

Student on team #1, The Juggernauts, from Oakland Technical Center-Northeast Campus and 3-Dimensional Services.

Posted on 7/11/2000 6:20 PM MST

In Reply to: OSMTech Needs Written Support!! posted by Becky Sherman on 7/11/2000 9:16 AM MST:

Becky-

Juggernauts will back you up. I personally will give some seriously good documentation.

-Erin, Team Captain, Team #1 Juggernauts

Posted by Splash.

Student on team #53, Team Inferno, from Eleanor Roosevelt High School and NASA GSFC.

Posted on 7/12/2000 6:18 PM MST

In Reply to: OSMTech Needs Written Support!! posted by Becky Sherman on 7/11/2000 9:16 AM MST:

The first year I worked on a robot, I was unhappy when I spent practically everyday working on a robot I thought was competitive, only to see that it was nothing compared to the teams that ovbiously have their engineers build their entire robot. When the engineer’s make all the parts and the students just bolt them on, I don’t consider that students working on the robot. Some teams openly admit that their sponsor builds the entire robot. And I can think of one team that is in the elimination rounds every year, that complained when their sponsor took a week longer than they had said to build their robot.

I don’t see the problem with building your own robot. If you actually helped out on the robot last year, you should have learned enough to be a successful team next year. Dependency on engineers shows a lack of confidence in your own team. And if you’re concerned with parts, you can pay a company to machine them for you.

If the engineers can show you that you can do what they’re doing, than they have inspired you. You can sit and watch Michael Jordan highlights and be inspired, but that’s not going to make you a basketball player. Sitting around and watching your engineers build a robot is not going to make you into an engineer.

I would have liked NASA to build our robot last year and all the years before, but they didn’t. I am more motivated being to be an engineer by working on a robot myself, than the students who sat around and didn’t help.

So then, what exactly is your problem with not having engineering support?

Posted by Dominiuqe.

Student on team #65, Huskie Brigade, from Pontiac Northern High School and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 7/13/2000 12:08 PM MST

In Reply to: OSMTech Needs Written Support!! posted by Becky Sherman on 7/11/2000 9:16 AM MST:

Hey Becky,

I’m so sorry to here that your sponsor might be dropping you. I need to know what date you need this information. I will keep your team in my prayers. I will hope that next year you guys will be in FIRST with the same sponsor. I also need to know how I can get the information to you. ‘Well God speed’