Our Ideal Alliance Partners

Posted by Raul at 1/31/2001 9:51 AM EST

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

OK, We can do other things but we specialize in “taking care of the bridge” (bridge tender). We are about 1 week away from telling everyone what our robot does exactly.

In the meantime, I think it would be helpful to all if we start to publish what each of us is looking for in alliance partners. Each should state the minimum features you need to get a really good score.

Here is ours:

Robot A: Can easily pull a goal around and up over the bridge.

Robot B: Can easily get to the other side of the field, place a big ball on top of a goal (erect) and push that goal up the bridge.

Robot C: Can easily get to the other side of the field and place a big ball (and/or small balls) on top of a goal (erect).

What are yours?

Raul

Posted by asher at 1/31/2001 3:52 PM EST

Student on team #31 from jest first.

In Reply to: Our Ideal Alliance Partners
Posted by Raul on 1/31/2001 9:51 AM EST:

So what do you plan to do if your alliance goes out for a match and you have 2 robots that can barely drive, let alone pull a goal and place big balls on top of them and another on the medic? Our team has “ideal” situations but we are also basing our score off what we can do alone, or with robots that can just get themselves to the end zone. The idea of publishing an “ideal” alliance is somewhat silly when you think about it, after all what are the chances of that? Just a thought and you can call me crazy.

Asher

Posted by Mike Soukup at 1/31/2001 4:15 PM EST

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.

In Reply to: isn’t that a bit forward?
Posted by asher on 1/31/2001 3:52 PM EST:

The chances of getting ideal alliance partners is pretty good if your team makes it to the elimination rounds, and excellent if you’re fortunate enough to be a top seed & pick your partners. It’s definately a good idea to be thinking about what types of robots yours will best be suited with. But you’ve also got to come up with strategies for the times you get paired with less than ideal partners, which will happen quite a bit.

Mike

Posted by Suneet Upadhyay at 1/31/2001 5:04 PM EST

Student on team #599, Robo Dox, from Granada Hills High School and C.S.U.N. and NASA/JPL and various.

In Reply to: isn’t that a bit forward?
Posted by asher on 1/31/2001 3:52 PM EST:

:So what do you plan to do if your alliance goes out for a match and you have 2 robots that can barely drive, let alone pull a goal and place big balls on top of them and another on the medic?..

Quite right. The best way to get in to the elimination is to have a considerably versatile robot that can hang in there, even with incompetent alliance partners. A robot doesn’t necessarily have to be able to do everything well, but it should be able to do enough things to survive.

Posted by Mike Soukup at 1/31/2001 6:09 PM EST

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling and Motorola.

In Reply to: Re: isn’t that a bit forward?
Posted by Suneet Upadhyay on 1/31/2001 5:04 PM EST:

: Quite right. The best way to get in to the elimination is to have a considerably versatile robot that can hang in there, even with incompetent alliance partners. A robot doesn’t necessarily have to be able to do everything well, but it should be able to do enough things to survive.

I’ll concede that the best way to get a lot of points in the seeding rounds is to be versatile and not have to rely on partners who may be broken or may not be very good. But the best way to get a lot of points in the elimination rounds and win the competition is to get an alliance of robots that compliment each other. I can guarantee that a team of robots who can do everything well, but don’t stand out at a single task would lose every match to a team of robots that could only perform 1 or 2 tasks and were excellent at that task.

So the choice for each team is (or should have been a few weeks ago) do you want a robot that does well in the seeding matches and will probably make it to the elimination rounds, or do you want a robot that may not be in the top 8 (automatic elimination rounds) but may get picked by another team because you’re the best at a specific task. That’s a very tough choice. Many teams will second guess the decision (in both directions) they made in this respect.

Posted by Joe Johnson at 1/31/2001 7:05 PM EST

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

In Reply to: Re: isn’t that a bit forward?
Posted by Mike Soukup on 1/31/2001 6:09 PM EST:

This is always a struggle with our team. Do we go for
doing everything needed or go we go for doing a smaller
set of skills more efficiently?

Most years we opt for more skills and hope for the best
in the elimination rounds.

Every year the idea of specializing gets more attractive.

With 3 other robot on the field and 4 other robots
available for the elimination rounds, there has never
been a better year to specialize.

As for our needs and wants in alliance partners, we are
till
keeping a tight lip about Chief Delphi 6.

With under 3 weeks left until shipping, the time will
come soon enough to reveal the capabilities of CD6.

We hope that it will be enough to make it to the
elimation rounds. If not, we hope to be good enough to
get drafted.

Time will tell.

Joe J.

Posted by Joe Ross at 1/31/2001 7:24 PM EST

Engineer on team #330, Beach Bot, from Hope Chapel Academy and NASA/JPL , J&F Machine, and Raytheon.

In Reply to: Re: isn’t that a bit forward?
Posted by Mike Soukup on 1/31/2001 6:09 PM EST:

: So the choice for each team is (or should have been a few weeks ago) do you want a robot that does well in the seeding matches and will probably make it to the elimination rounds, or do you want a robot that may not be in the top 8 (automatic elimination rounds) but may get picked by another team because you’re the best at a specific task. That’s a very tough choice. Many teams will second guess the decision (in both directions) they made in this respect.

I don’t think it is possible to build any type of robot and have it even probably get to the elimination rounds. In the regionals, to get to pick, you need to be in the to 4 out of between 30 and 60+ teams. This is hard to do even if your robot can do everything because of the luck of the draw. It gets much harder in Florida. There, you have to qualify in the top 2 out of 80 to be able to pick.

I consider the worst place to be is in the position where you automatically qualify for the finals but don’t get to pick. In this case, you will have to work with the alliance captain, but the captain didn’t get a chance to choose you because you complemented them. I feel that in about 50% of the matches (at least in the good regionals and florida) the robot that is automatically in the finals will not play because that robot doesn’t fit into the alliance captain’s strategy.

Posted by Ken Leung at 1/31/2001 10:35 PM EST

Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Henry M. Gunn Senior High School.

In Reply to: it gets worse for the general robots
Posted by Joe Ross on 1/31/2001 7:24 PM EST:

In the finals, they are going to pair up #1 with #4, #2 and #5… And it is probable in that situation for two special robots with the same function got paired together. So what will happen is the pool of those special robot out there will be smaller, while in that specific alliance, they won’t need two robot that do the same thing. One of the two will end up as a backup machine, while other alliance might not be able to draft that kind of special robot, and end up doing much worse.

From right now, though, there is no telling how are the alliance going to be, mainly we still don’t know what other teams are going to do out there. (Although I have a feeling that too much robot will be balancer)
But one thing I can conclude is that this year’s alliances are not going to be even in the finals, and even more chaotic in the qualifying rounds.

By the way, in regional, the teams know each other really well, so the drafting is actually base on performance. That’s different than last year’s nationals where there drafting was more based on the friendship with other teams and/or how much a team sticks out among every other teams in the pit area. But of course this year with the division that’s a different story.

-Ken Leung
ALL for perfect alliance and not individual robots

Posted by Josh at 1/31/2001 6:50 PM EST

Engineer on team #419, Rambots, from Wentworth Institute of Technology.

In Reply to: isn’t that a bit forward?
Posted by asher on 1/31/2001 3:52 PM EST:

Just a thought and you can call me crazy.

: Asher

Can we call you crazy even if we agree with you?
:slight_smile:

Josh
Team 419
“That’s alright with me” -Lifehouse