Shortly after our regional, one of the parents got upset about how student duties/assignments/etc. were managed at the tournament.
We’re a new team (2nd year) and were no doubt unorganized. But it’s not my intent to get into details and blame here…
Anybody know of any guidelines/recommendations for handling general team disputes like this? I haven’t seen anything in the FIRST/FRC manuals or via searches.
Thanks,
Dan
Sounds like you need NEMO - Non Engineering Mentor Organization
http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm
You will find many helpful resources there
So were they upset about how little students were doing? We ran into the same problem this year, where our coach was micromanaging what seemed to be everything. I’m sure it didn’t help that I was pushing the envelope a bit too much as well, as I joined our team with leadership skills that I have learned in 4-H.
One thing that I did was to have a sit down meeting with 2 of our head (college) senior mentors (who also partially felt the same way I did), the coach, and my mom. I felt that I was able to get how I was feeling (but a bit nicer) out in the ‘open’ with our coach.
I encourage you to have a meeting with the youth involved in the incident along with their parents to support them, a (student) mentor, and the coaches to talk about how the incident can be peacefully resolved and how to ensure it won’t happen again.
Hope this helps!
-David
It’s hard to offer specific advice here, but having non-engineering mentors will always help.
Reacting after the fact is always a problem.
You need to be proactive, and sit down with parents, students, and mentors, and flesh out a basic team structure. After that, you need to define responsibilities for each position, and a method of bringing greivances to the mentor’s attention.
Hint: It should NEVER be a member’s parent complaining to mentors unless there is a major issue or the mentors are ignoring student input. The interactions should be student to mentors, or student leadership to mentor.
The students need to be comfortable bringing complaints up to the mentors, and the mentors need to understand that their first task is to listen to the students and help them accomplish things, not be dictators. It’s a hard paradigm to create. It took us 4-5 years to get everything in place, and we still struggle with balance every year.
Here is a somewhat outdated graph of our team structure:
http://www.fightingpi.org/Team%201718/Structure.shtml
How many members are on your team? I can recommend our organisational structure to you.
Each student is required to be in two sub-teams; A technical one, and a managerial one.
The technical sub-teams include Chassis, Manipulator 1, Manipulator 2, Manipulator 3, Electrical, Programming, and Field Build/Bumpers. These teams work on the robot.
The managerial sub-teams include Design, Entrepreneurship, Media, Website, Awards (the writing of them), Safety, Animation, and Scouting/Strategy. These teams focus more on the structure of the team, and help manage the team as a whole.
Each type of group (Technical and Managerial) is headed up by the highest on the food chain in terms of responsibility of the team. These two people (including the team leader) oversee the doings of every group under their catergory. Each group is headed up by a team advisor. The team advisors are a group of 7 mentors whom are essentially the bosses of the team. Adult mentors work under the advisors, and aide students in accomplishing the task at hand. Under the adult mentors are student sub-team leaders. In the beginning of the season, students ran for these positions. They manage some of the smaller tasks in the group, such as the division of work (I am the sub-team leader of our Media team). And finally, each group has students working in them.
At competitions, we organise students in a few different ways. We have our pit crew, a group of three students who work in the pits and fix the robot when it is broken (two advisors work with the pit crew to ensure the robot gets fixed). We have our ambassador and safety captain. Our ambassador mainly talks to judges, and helps us win awards. The safety captain’s position is pretty straightforward. We have our drive team, who watch matches and strategise on how to win matches. Then we have our strategist, who tries to develop an alliance picking list. His data comes from him watching matches, but is also aided by our scout team and data enter-er. We have 12 students on our scouting team, one for each robot. After every 17 matches, the students who just scouted are replaced by 6 fresh scouters. Our data enter-er enters data gathered from scouting, and gives that data to our drive coach, who shares that data with the other teams on our alliance (I’m a scout, and switch off with another scout (when we aren’t doing our scouting shifts) with taking pictures. A pit crew member takes video of our robot during out matches on our tablet, and those videos are used by our drive coach to coach our drivers).
I hope this helps resolve your issue!
This is a link to a diagram of our structure.
http://www.trucktownthunder.com/uploads/1/0/7/6/10763425/subteams.pdf
It could be that one of your students was just not happy with his/her assignment. That happens and there is nothing you can do to predict the outcome. Students need to understand that there are some jobs (like scouting or packing the bus) that simply need to be done and everyone needs to chip in. That is what being part of a team means.
Unfortunately it may also be a case of a parent reacting without having the whole story. We’ve encountered this once or twice over the years as well.
I can probably offer some suggestions since there had been quite a few problems with parents in the past especially in the first 2 years.
The most important thing is communication ahead of time. Before students join the team, I have an information meeting with all the parents. I explain how drive team members are selected, how team captains are selected, the requirements to earn varsity letter, what jobs students can do during build season and how positions are assigned by the coach (me) at the competitions. I also have a 10-15 miinute interview with each student and their parents in the fall to better understand individual needs and concerns.
I always model our team like a sports team in our school. If parents decide who plays what position on a football team, I will let that happen also. If parents decide what the strategy should be in the second half of a basketball game, I will allow the same. If parents decide who will be team captains on other sport teams in school, I will also follow. If parents come down during a sports game to the sidelines and offer suggestions to the coach, I will let them come to the pit and tell me how they want the robot fixed.
I have had parents who wants everybody on the team to rotate to be driver and I should not be overly concern about winning. I have had parents who did not attend the information meeting or read the meeting minutes or emails explaining the requirement to get a varsity letter and then accuse me of being bias when he found out his son did not get a varsity letter and others did. It boils down to they only care about what their son/daughter gets and not for the benefit or long term sustainability of the team. They always want exceptions because they think their child is special.
I had a long conversation with the school’s athletic director. I learned that coaches of all sport teams in our school face similar issues with parents. He gave me some very good advice. He said as long as my decisions are for the benefit of the team and I have the long term benefit of the students in mind, I don’t have to give in to what the parents want and the school will back me up if parents complain. He also said communications ahead of time of expectations is important.
I make the final decisions on everything for the team but I listen to the opinion of the assistant coach, other mentors, team captains, other students and the team manager who is a parent. I looked at the strong teams in Michigan and every one of them have a strong leader. In most cases a successful team cannot be run by a committee. Decisions have to be made quickly and consistently and without hidden agenda during the build season. Some people call me a dictator. My answer is always to tell them politely to start their own team and run it the way they want if they think they can do a better job.
My most important job is to ensure a sustainable program so students will continue to be benefited by FIRST programs in the school district. However I do recognize the importance of working closely with parents. They are partners and can be a tremendous resource to the team. I have been very fortunate in the last two years having very supportive parents on the team.
If you have specific situations and would like advice, you can PM me.
This is excellent advice. It may not help in the OP’s current (after the fact) situation, but it might help that team and others in the future. I was already an experienced sports coach when I started coaching FRC, so I knew some of this already. But every sport is different. When I coached basketball and soccer I sometimes had issues like those in FRC with how positions are earned by students. When I coach track and CC things are a bit easier, as it is fairly easy to point to times and marks to explain why one kids is jumping and another is not at a particular meet.
The key through all of it, as Ed said, is to try to be clear up front. It is also important to give people a chance to try different roles. While we have tryouts for the drive team, most other roles are earned by those who show up and do the work. Every year at competition we end up with someone who just starts to shine at competition. So we give everyone who wants it a chance to man the pits. Most of the team takes part in scouting. Everyone helps with load in and load out. Fixing the robot is done by whichever component team is involved in the repairs. We do make it clear to kids that at competition we are looking the next group of leaders to emerge.
So back to the point at hand. How to handle disputes on the team. I think the best advice has been given by several posters. The parent talking to the mentor about concerns is fine, but having students address it is generally better for the team dynamic. Another possibility instead of complaining about how things are is suggesting possible solutions and offering help in implementing them. This is good advice for anyone. I know that when someone comes to me and says “X is a problem. I think Y is a potential solution. How can I help make Y happen.” I am much more likely to react positively than if someone just says “X is a problem.”
I have certainly had my share of trying interactions with parents. I try to always put myself in the parent’s shoes, and wonder what I would do if it were my child with the problem. I have also had plenty of trying interactions with students and mentors. I am sure that there are students and mentors who feel they have had trying interactions with me. That is part of being a member of any team or organization. Learning how to deal respectfully with others is a really important skill to develop.
Ed
Those are great comments… having been a sports coach for many years AND a Robotics coach for the past decade or so… its not much different.
Usually, parents who don’t really know how the organization is laid out generally are the ones that complain. They are misinformed and say things that are not based on any depth of knowledge about the situation.
Whenever I have an individual who complains too much I invite them to a parent meeting and there (if they come at all…) I ask them to head up the committee to try and find a better way to achieve a solution for the issue that they have complained about. On rare occasions, they will take the challenge and we will get a better solution. Normally they won’t have time to help in that way.
If you don’t like something … become part of the solution… or find out why your solution is not the best one for the team…
Usually complainers only want to invest the time it takes them to complain in a problem.
Thanks for such a good comment Ed!!
I think he’s asking for guidance because he in fact is the one responsible
Really great advice in this thread, btw. The analogies between sports coaches and FRC coaches are quite interesting.
HoltDan
First off, I would like to say I am very sorry you experienced less than a joyful memory of attending a First Regional Competition, it should be a celebration of young people joining together to co-operate and compete.
Secondly, there is some very useful and wonderful responses and advice in this thread, and I would like to offer humbly somewhat a bit of an insight being a parent of a First Robotics participating student. I have witnessed both the “good” and somewhat less than good sides of being a “First Parent”.
My child found the robotics team of his/her High School the very first year, and joined as soon as he/she could. The lead coach and mentors encouraged my child to develop, learn, and strive to push the bar higher for the team. To encourage him/her to tackle every challenge and new game year after year and to strive and get to the highest First Robotics Competition level of participation, compete on the Einstein field at the First World Championships. Which the team and my child finally experienced.
The very next year, my child was put in the position of being ostracized by the very same lead coach and one of the newer non-technical mentors as being “Too big for his/her britches”, and yes I was told to my face by the lead coach those very words. The one hundred percent about face was most puzzling to me, yet I chose to let my child deal with the issue. I felt that his/her decision would affect his/her future.
Eventually my child resigned from that team, and within days was asked and welcomed with open arms to another First Robotics team who wanted his/her experience and knowledge. As you can understand, I have kept my child’s gender anonymous as he/she is still heavily involved in First Robotics.
Please understand I am in no way criticizing First or any First Robotics teams. I truly believe they have made my child into a much better young responsible adult, and I thank you for that.
Being a parent I watch from the stands, silently suffer the losses, and enthusiastically celebrate the wins, yes its not about the robots…it’s about the human factors, I get that.
Coaches, mentors…remember robots have no feelings, but students and parents do.
First_Parent
Wow - thanks for all the helpful responses (it will take me a while to digest them all)
What a great organization!
Dan
Do you have a team handbook? The process of creating one and defining the roles and expectations of the students will make a lot of problems go away. Get everyone involved in the process, students, parents and mentors. Incorporate as many suggestions from the parents as you can. When there is a disagreement, explain to them what is in the best interest of the team. The handbook is a living document that will change from year to year. Take time in the off season to work on it.
All our students must fill out a team application each year. On the application both the students and parents must acknowledge that they have read and will abide by the team rules and regulations in the handbook. The application is distributed as the last page of the handbook, so no one can say that they did not receive it.
John’s advice is right on. Having a Handbook is a goal that all teams should be working towards.
They come in all types. I have started and stopped and started and stopped over the past 3 years doing a review of great team handbooks and highlighting different ones that have done a good job at certain sections. I hope to pick this back up, but life keeps getting in the way.
There are quite a few that have contracts and expectations laid out for parents. I talked about this some during workshops here in Maryland (and at World Championship last year). Presentation posted here: http://www.firstnemo.org/resources.htm on “Parent Involvement”. Also, do a search for Handbooks in the white papers here on cd or just google the words “handbook + FIRST.”
I got sucked into FRC more than a decade ago as “just a parent” on a team, and I’m still hanging around causing trouble.
Dan,
There is a lot of great advice here about how to prepare for next year and how to hopefully do your best to avoid this in the future, so I won’t reiiterate that.
Instead I have a few ideas for dealing with the situation as it currently stands.
Unfortunately it is the case that you (or any leader) will NEVER make everyone happy. But the first thing you should do is sit down and assess the exact situation. It sounds like you are admitting that things were a bit disorganized. Think about the actual student’s role and try to put yourself in their shoes. What might they be upset about? Is it a logical upset? or a completely emotional thing? Next put yourself in the parent’s shoes. As FIRST_Parent mentions here… parents want to see their children succeed and grow. They get upset when they feel you were unfair to their child. Its a natural thing - any of us would feel that way as a parent.
Now their reaction may not have been the best. Consider when the reaction happened. Was it at the Regional? Immediately following the Regional? Often emotions are crazy high, and without some good (ie winning your way to champs, or winning a big award), people can often focus on the bad. It sounds like that is what is happening here. The student felt left out or like they didn’t get the role that they wanted, and the parent is reacting.
So how do you best diffuse the situation? Well the first most important part is to “talk them down”. Basically you want to see if you can have a calm conversation with them about the reality of the situation. Hear them out and let them explain their side. Admit where you/the leaders probably made mistakes, and don’t be defensive, but let them know that the team & the leaders are all still learning as this is only your second year.
I faced a number of parent situations across my times of running teams, and especially early on, I failed plenty of times and I would usually try and tell the parents that I had done my best, but that I am only human, and only a volunteer and I make mistakes too. But that I would do my best to make sure that things were set right next year. And that’s the second half of your conversation. Tell them that you are looking into ways to hopefully be better organized next year, and to better assign roles (assuming you actually mean this - NEVER promise that and then not follow through). And if you think you can work with this parent, perhaps even request their help. I had a parent complain the first year, but then I got her to lead a team of students to write our student handbook the second year. Sometimes people that are passionate just don’t know how to fix the problem… sometimes they just want to complain and have someone else fix it. You will have to figure that one out with this particular parent.
Then… set in motion change for next year. Take everything you’ve learned and all the ideas/comments here and come up with a plan that works for you & the team for next year.
But above all, very similar to what Ed said, you need to accept that you will never make everyone happy. You should try your hardest to get organized and learn from any mistakes or issues, but realize no matter how hard you work, there will always be some parent with a gripe… your goal is just to minimize those as much as possible by doing your best to communicate up front.