Hello everyone,
I’m representing rookie FRC team 5810 from Santa Fe Springs, CA. Very recently we have discovered a need for ~4 inch hex bore wheels and are looking for the 3-7/8 BaneBots wheels. However, I can’t seem to find them on the BaneBots website.
Is there any Los Angeles region team willing to sell or trade us for those wheels? We have a very large amount 1-7/8 “green” wheels that we could trade for or otherwise pay in cash (we’re on a super tight budget so I wouldn’t like to ship anything)
Lots of us miss those wheels but it looks like they’ve been discontinued. That being the case they aren’t a Commonly available Off The Shelf (COTS) part so can’t be used on this year’s FRC robot.
Items that are no longer commercially available but are functionally equivalent to the original condition as delivered from the VENDOR are considered COTS and may be used.
I would disagree if I were a robot inspector. That rule was meant to cover old versions of the same part, not something that was discontinued and for which there isn’t a direct replacement from the same vendor. There’s nothing quite like an old 3 7/8 Banebots wheel.
If you were my inspector, I’d throw Example 6 in the blue box below at you…
Example 1: A Team orders two (2) ROBOT grippers from RoboHands Corp. and receives both items. They put one in their storeroom and plan to use it later. Into the other, they drill “lightening holes” to reduce weight. The first gripper is still classified as a COTS item, but the second gripper is now a FABRICATED ITEM, as it has been modified.
Example 2: A Team obtains openly available blueprints of a drive module commonly available from Wheels-R-Us Inc. and has local machine shop “We-Make-It, Inc.” manufacture a copy of the part for them. The produced part is NOT a COTS item, because it is not commonly carried as part of the standard stock of We-Make-It, Inc.
Example 3: A Team obtains openly available design drawings from a professional publication during the pre-season, and uses them to fabricate a gearbox for their ROBOT during the build period following Kickoff. The design drawings are considered a COTS item, and may be used as “raw material” to fabricate the gearbox. The finished gearbox itself would be a FABRICATED ITEM, and not a COTS item.
Example 4: A COTS part that has non-functional label markings added would still be considered a COTS part, but a COTS part that has device-specific mounting holes added is a FABRICATED ITEM.
Example 5: A team has a COTS single-board processor version 1.0, which can no longer be purchased. Only the COTS single-board processor version 2.0 may be purchased. If the COTS single-board processor version 1.0 is functionally equivalent to its original condition, it may be used.
Example 6: A team has a COTS gearbox which has been discontinued. If the COTS gearbox is functionally equivalent to its original condition, it may be used.
I didn’t realize that these wheels are of questionable legality! I certainly want to make sure we get past inspection at our event so it looks like we will be avoiding them.
Big thanks to everyone for the suggestions and help.
Can you cite some rule or Q&A that supports your interpretation? This is substantially different from how the rule is written, which is very plain and unambiguous:
Items that are no longer commercially available but are functionally equivalent to the original condition as delivered from the VENDOR are considered COTS and may be used.
Nothing on there about how a similar part has to be available from the same vendor, or anything like that. Inspectors enforce rules as written, not what they think they meant to say.
That has a very interesting side-effect. If I have a sonic shifter that I drilled a hole in to mount something to, then I can’t use it next year.
However, if AM were to discontinue the sonic shifter then I would be able to use mine that has a hole in it - because it is still ‘functionally equivalent’.
Now I’m going to hope Andy Mark starts bumping the product number every year so I don’t have to buy new transmission parts to replace the ones we’ve had to modify.
I stand corrected. It looks like FIRST has relaxed the COTS rule from my last run-in with it. If can find a BaneBots wheel, unmodified, go for it.
Footnote, AndyMark used to go so far as to keep obsolete versions of things “in stock” but tell everyone to buy the modern version just to allow teams to use the older version they already owned.
