pic: Cabon Fiber Reinforced Nylon Filament 3d Printed Parts - FRC 3986


#1



Prototype 3D printed parts produced with a Prusa i3 Mk3 printer, a Olsson Ruby nozzle and a Fiber Force NylForce carbon-fiber reinforced nylon filament. The STL model was sliced with Slic3rPE.


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#2

Is it nylon X?


#3

That is awesome! So many questions! Do you have issues with first layer adhesion or the Nylon delaminating? Do you use the default Nylon profile for the machine? Do you have the Prusa MK3 in an enclosure to keep the ambient temperature up? We have been looking to do something similar on our two Prusa MK3s, but have heard Nylon can be tricky. Thanks!


#4

Nice! Has anyone by chance tested this material vs. Markforged Onyx in the context of FRC applications? Seems like it should be similar.


#5

So I just got a Prusa and I also ordered the carbon-fiber filament that they sell.

So far I’ve only bought the stock brass nozzle, so I need different one to print the carbon fiber.

But the book says I just need the hardened steel nozzle.

So tell me, the ruby nozzle–is that better? Do I need it?

Will I need to take it back off to print PLA etc?


#6

The difference between the Ruby and a hardened steel nozzle is how much filament it can put through before needing to be replaced. A hardened steel nozzle will open up as the abrasive CF filament wears at it. This happens in a few kilos of material. The Ruby is more durable, and can basically handle as much abrasive filament as you can throw at it.

Last I checked, it would take ~4 steel nozzles to equal the cost of a Ruby. That might have changed, but that equated to ~16 kilos of material printed on the estimate of 4 kilos of CF filament wearing out a steel nozzle. You’ll probably want to update those numbers with whatever the current prices are, and want to do your own research on how long it will take to wear out a steel nozzle. There are various estimates out there based on what kind of steel the nozzle is.

If you’re planning on aggressively printing lots of parts, a Ruby nozzle is probably worth it. If it’s not the primary use case for the printer, it may not be.


#7

This reminds me a lot of the oynx from the markFordged printers that my team uses, utmost the strongest prints I’ve ever seen and worked with. If teams have the money I really recommend this kind of print even if it’s not used that often.


#8

I wounder how this filament with the Prusa compares against the Markforged Onyx one prints? I can’t really tell from the picture but the parts look great!


#9

e; delete


#10

We actually have two of the same parts in our lab, one printed with a Markforge and one printed with a Prusa i3 Mk2 if you want to check them out :D.

For those who don’t have access to our lab the parts are pretty much identical in print quality and accuracy. The difference is ease of use. The markforge comes with a drybox and an enclosure, requires no tweaking out of the box and generally just works. I had to fudge with the Prusa a bit to make it print well but it wasn’t that bad. I still really want a Markforge though.

It’s a trade off really. I’d strongly recommend any team with a Markforge to also get a Prusa i3 Mk3 for just general PLA printing and prototyping where the strength is not needed. It’ll pay for itself in filament savings and prevent you from tying up the Markforge for parts that don’t really need it. There’s also the educational aspect of letting students print whatever they want unencumbered by the fear of wasting expensive filament. By leveraging proper design techniques you’ll be surprised by the amount of strength you can get out of just plain old PLA.

Bottom line is the Markforge prints nylon like the Prusa I3 Mk3 prints PLA. There’s a need for both.


#11

This is exactly where 1678 landed for all the same reasons you listed. We have 8 Prusa I3 Mk3’s and 2 Markforged printers (an Onyx One and Mark Two).

-Mike


#12

What’s the difference between these two models?


#13

https://markforged.com/composites/

Onyx One ($3500) prints only Onyx material, which is nylon + chopped carbon fiber. This seems to be the model most recommended for FRC - strong & durable parts.

Onyx Pro ($7000) adds ability to incorporate continuous fiberglass into Onyx prints for ~10x strength prints (with thoughtful design)

Mark Two ($13500) adds several other continuous materials including carbon for up to ~34x strength


#14

No. We’re using the Fiber Force NylForce carbon fiber fiber reinforced nylon filament.
http://www.fiberforce.it/nylforce-carbon-fiber/


#15

Do you have issues with first layer adhesion or the Nylon delaminating?

It took a few calibration runs to get settings right for extruder and print plate temperatures and print plate preparation. But once they got dfialed in, it pretty much became “Fire-and-Forget”. The largest part in the caster assembly takes 17 hours to print. It got to the point where all I do now is launch the print, make sure I have enough filament left on the spool and that the first layer adhesion is right, then just walk away from the printer.

Do you use the default Nylon profile for the machine?
I used the Taulmann Bridge profile in Slic3rPE. Then adjusted temperatures and dropped speeds a little for fill-ins.

Do you have the Prusa MK3 in an enclosure to keep the ambient temperature up?
No enclosure whatsoever. However, I must state I live alone in my appartment and I ensure there is only so much airflow in my lab/workshop. We will be working next on moving the fabrication process on the school’s Ultimaker 2 and 3 printers and have the students completely take-over the fabricaion process.

We have been looking to do something similar on our two Prusa MK3s, but have heard Nylon can be tricky. Thanks!
Tricky, but not a pain once you become familiar with the material.

Reply

chrisrinRegistered User

Oct '18

Nice! Has anyone by chance tested this material vs. Markforged Onyx in the context of FRC applications? Seems like it should be similar.

Reply

hrenchmechanical build mentor

Oct '18

So I just got a Prusa and I also ordered the carbon-fiber filament that they sell.

So far I’ve only bought the stock brass nozzle, so I need different one to print the carbon fiber.

But the book says I just need the hardened steel nozzle.

So tell me, the ruby nozzle–is that better? Do I need it?

Will I need to take it back off to print PLA etc?

2 Replies

Reply

cadandcookiesRegistered User

Oct '18

hrench:

So I just got a Prusa and I also ordered the carbon-fiber filament that they sell.

So far I’ve only bought the stock brass nozzle, so I need different one to print the carbon fiber.

But the book says I just need the hardened steel nozzle.

So tell me, the ruby nozzle–is that better? Do I need it?

Will I need to take it back off to print PLA etc?

The difference between the Ruby and a hardened steel nozzle is how much filament it can put through before needing to be replaced. A hardened steel nozzle will open up as the abrasive CF filament wears at it. This happens in a few kilos of material. The Ruby is more durable, and can basically handle as much abrasive filament as you can throw at it.

Last I checked, it would take ~4 steel nozzles to equal the cost of a Ruby. That might have changed, but that equated to ~16 kilos of material printed on the estimate of 4 kilos of CF filament wearing out a steel nozzle. You’ll probably want to update those numbers with whatever the current prices are, and want to do your own research on how long it will take to wear out a steel nozzle. There are various estimates out there based on what kind of steel the nozzle is.

If you’re planning on aggressively printing lots of parts, a Ruby nozzle is probably worth it. If it’s not the primary use case for the printer, it may not be.

Reply

Dwight_2CAD Mentor

Oct '18

This reminds me a lot of the oynx from the markFordged printers that my team uses, utmost the strongest prints I’ve ever seen and worked with. If teams have the money I really recommend this kind of print even if it’s not used that often.

Reply

21 DAYS LATER

stramat8I speak for myself, not for my team

Nov '18

I wounder how this filament with the Prusa compares against the Markforged Onyx one prints? I can’t really tell from the picture but the parts look great!

1 Reply

Reply

Lil_LaveryHungry Dawgs Run Faster

hrench

Nov '18

e; delete

Reply

Marcus_QReversible bumpers are my trigger

stramat8

Nov '18

stramat8:

I wounder how this filament with the Prusa compares against the Markforged Onyx one prints? I can’t really tell from the picture but the parts look great!

We actually have two of the same parts in our lab, one printed with a Markforge and one printed with a Prusa i3 Mk2 if you want to check them out :D.

For those who don’t have access to our lab the parts are pretty much identical in print quality and accuracy. The difference is ease of use. The markforge comes with a drybox and an enclosure, requires no tweaking out of the box and generally just works. I had to fudge with the Prusa a bit to make it print well but it wasn’t that bad. I still really want a Markforge though.

It’s a trade off really. I’d strongly recommend any team with a Markforge to also get a Prusa i3 Mk3 for just general PLA printing and prototyping where the strength is not needed. It’ll pay for itself in filament savings and prevent you from tying up the Markforge for parts that don’t really need it. There’s also the educational aspect of letting students print whatever they want unencumbered by the fear of wasting expensive filament. By leveraging proper design techniques you’ll be surprised by the amount of strength you can get out of just plain old PLA.

Bottom line is the Markforge prints nylon like the Prusa I3 Mk3 prints PLA. There’s a need for both.

Reply

Michael_CorsettoBreathe in… Breathe out…

Nov '18

Marcus Q:

It’s a trade off really. I’d strongly recommend any team with a Markforge to also get a Prusa i3 Mk3 for just general PLA printing and prototyping where the strength is not needed. It’ll pay for itself in filament savings and prevent you from tying up the Markforge for parts that don’t really need it. There’s also the educational aspect of letting students print whatever they want unencumbered by the fear of wasting filament. By leveraging proper design techniques you’ll be surprised by the amount of strength you can get out of just plain old PLA.

Bottom line is the Markforge prints nylon like the Prusa I3 Mk3 prints PLA. There’s a need for both.

This is exactly where 1678 landed for all the same reasons you listed. We have 8 Prusa I3 Mk3’s and 2 Markforged printers (an Onyx One and Mark Two).

-Mike

Reply

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#16

It was our initial plan to print the Swerve Drive caster parts using both the Prusa i3 Mk3 and a MarkForged X7 printer.
First, we ran into a problem finding a X7 in our area. There is none.
Second, once we saw the results coming off the Prusa, we decided that we would first give carbon-fiber reinforced nylon a shot before trying out Kevlar-reinforced nylon on a MarkForged.
Third, we analyzed the caster design so as to identify weak points and reinforce as needed.