pic: Madtown Robotics Drive Proto



As the new controller is coming out, Madtown decided to lose some weight on our old 35lb drivetrain and improve some features. So we lost about 15lbs.

-Wheels weigh about .33 lbs each (6 to 4 inch)
-Can be assembled and CNC in about 8 hours (without gearbox’s)
-Uses the drivetrain drop concept (plate that line up on the outside for selecting amount of drop)
-Light 2 speed gearboxes (1.5 lbs)
-6061 aluminum frame/dead axles

Post pics of final product in a couple of days

Feedback would be great

looks nice and clean. good design

What cut of Al are you using for those front bumper-like thing? I’ve never seen anyone use that before. Looks clean and light. All welded I’m assuming?

are those gearboxes custom?

The front bumpers are extremely funny, our teacher 3 years ago thought it would be cool if our bumpers weren’t rectangular. So he got a piece of 1x2 aluminum and made slits on the ends, then bent the pieces to that U shape on the front and left the back flat. Then we weld them shut. You can’t notice the welds on the front due to powder coating. BTW, we weld everything.

Yes, those gearboxes are custom. For some reason we lost sponsorships but got some weird grants over the summer. We have a brand new CNC, a ton of broaches for keyways and hexes, and other random stuff in our shop. So we figured to start making custom stuff, it’s pretty fun. Especially when CD gives such brilliant suggestions.

I forgot, in the grant that we wrote for our CNC, it stated that we had to help other teams machine out parts. So i don’t know if i should start another thread, but if any teams needs anything milled (can be possible to do with a 3 axis) we would do it for free (you pay for shipping, the product and $1 for the labor/SO as close to free machining.) Contact Me

where do you get powder-coating done? isent that really expensive?

I work in a custom machine shop that has full CNC capabilities as long with powder coating. Is there a rule against powdercoating in FIRST/ or anything like it?

My employer has allowed us to use all equipment during build season. Do you guys always do that drive train?

I’m sorry if I’m missing something, but what are those shafts extending from the gearboxes? They don’t appear to be attached to anything.

The 1.5 lb gearbox seems fishy to me. What are the gears? Are you accounting for fasteners, cylinder, bearings, shafts, etc…

I can see them being 1.5 lbs without motors. Two motors are more than 1.5lbs.

That being said: Due to all the changes being made to the kit, with electronics and all, don’t secure yourself on the CIM motors. Whatever you do, be ready for a change in case it comes.

Not for as long as I can remember. Any team that has wanted to powdercoat/anodize/paint/otherwise treat their metal has pretty much been free to (aside from the cost limits).

This may change in 2009.

We have a wide range of sponsors that do not donate money, instead they offer resources such as powder coating, we have gotten it for free and yes it is pretty expensive.

No, there is no rule against it. The pink team, poofs and a handful of other teams do it.

The shafts are attached to the gears, it is an andymark supershifter without the last stage of gears.

The gears are all steel, but they have been faced down (from a 3/8 to a 3/16) and they have holes drilled into them by using an index. The weight is accurate but it does not include motors. BTW, there are only five gears (exclude cim gears) in this assembly and we have found a sponsor that will anodize the gears for us.

I was thinking the same thing, I created this drive before Bill’s statement. It would be kinda cool to get some Mag Motors. lol.

What grade steel were you planning on using? Did you feel that this grade was not going to be strong enough? I was under the assumption that its not possible to anodize steel.

Have you done the math on this? 3/16, while probably OK on the first stage of reduction is scary thin for your output stage.

Also as Brandon pointed out, you can’t anodize steel.

Sorry, I didn’t mean steel. I was thinking about the aluminum gears.

You’re making aluminum gears? I would think very hard about that before committing to a design that revolves around them. Travis has posted on here how there’s no way we would have attempted the gearbox we did in 2007 if it hadn’t been able to take care of his and Kirk’s senior design project as well. There’s hundreds of hours of machining alone put into them. The resources are really better spent elsewhere.

Regardless of the material, you need to do the math to see if 3/16" face width will work for you. It probably will for the initial reduction, but my gut instinct is there’s no way it will hold up on the output.

Cory I was thinking about this, what if we used a 3/16 face on the first reduction. Then moved up to 3/8 face for the rest, shouldn’t that be fine. We are not going to go with an aluminum gearbox yet. In the offseason we will be attempting and testing one out, but for the season it will be steel. I just pointed out that we could anodize if we needed to harden up the aluminum gears(if we used it). I have already checked out your aluminum gearboxes and Cory, if we wanted to make an aluminum gearbox, what steps do you recommend or what is your opinion about creating an aluminum gearbox. We have the time and resources to make one over winter break. But not during the season it we don’t make a proto, thanks Cory.

They spent hundreds of hours. Hundreds. If you worked nonstop for a week, that’s 168 hours.

You know what your best bet is if you want a nice, light, simple to make gearbox? Make custom sideplates for the AM supershifters, pocket them like you did, and use standoffs rather than the extrusion casing, like you did. It’ll be real fast to make, and you know it will work and be very reliable. It may not technically be the lightest gearbox out there, but it will be done fast and done right. You could probably drop the 4.6 lb super shifter to at least 3.5, probably closer to 3 if you lighten the gears (but do not, do not reduce the face width unless you really know what you’re doing). A 3-3.5 pound, 2-speed, bulletproof gearbox is still pretty light overall.

This is our exact plan on 973. We technically have the resources to make lighter gearboxes (from Steel gears, we won’t dabble in aluminum without some serious effort and planning), but it’s not worth the additional time and risk in our opinion.

I totally agree, but we will be facing down steel gears b/c

a. we have the resources
b. engineers are gonna help us with details
c. a great learning experience for the team

Oooh, CAD! Shiny! If criticism is welcome, then I offer up the following. I ensure you that my intentions are not to denigrate your design, but instead to offer some criticism. PM me if anything here doesn’t make sense, I’d love to explain it to you over PM, without the pressure of an open channel.

First off: Cheeseholing your drive frame. Why? The weight saving there is minimal, and the time it would take to machine those parts could be better spent doing something with more impact, such as more time in design to make sure your robot will reach maximum effectiveness during competition. Instead of spending time hobbing the structure of your robot away for those precious few pounds, I suggest spending the time doing some FEA on your chassis to make sure it can withstand the forces of the game, while still using the minimal materials possible. I’m sure you can chop the weight down without needing to spend an enormous amount of time machining key structural components.

Second: Gearbox mounting. It makes me nervous having only two bolts holding something that critical to an already weakened member. If you move the gearbox down, so more of the sideplate face is flush against the chassis member. This allows the bolts to take less of the load when the gearbox is under stress.

Third: Gearbox sideplates. Yes, milling out enormous pockets on the gearbox plates look cool. Yes, it provides bragging points to other teams. Is it necessary? Not if the design is done well enough. If your goal is to lose weight, look at designing your side plates around a different material. I highly recommend Delrin or UHMW. You will (most likely) save machining time as well as cost and weight.

Fourth: Gears. Aluminum gears, unless they’re pre-fabricated, are not worth the work. Your team MIGHT save some weight by going with this option, but is the insane cost and manufacturing time worth the weight? Instead of going with exotic materials, it might be a better design decision to go with something strong and proven.

I might be designing a little to “conservatively,” but I’ve yet to have a gearbox failure by working with these principles. As a great mentor taught my old team, the most important question is not what can we build with this, but Why are we building this with that?

I really like the design you have going for the chassis, assuming you make a few tweaks. You’ve got a cool and innovative “crumple point” in the form of those rounded bumper plates. You’re also going to get a lot of strength out of the triangles you’ve created in the frame. However, you might gain even more if you design in a chassis member across the front of the frame, and tweak the superstructure to suit.

Good work on the CAD, it’s a valuable skill. Never stop designing things!