Actually, all I know is their build kids are some of the most actively involved and knowledgable students around. I can’t count the times I’ve seen them elbows deep in their robot, maintaining it or making repairs. I would venture to guess this capable involvement extends to the shop during build season.
And as far as using their mentor design talents to create a high quality machine each year, as Dave Lavery and others have stressed, that’s kinda the point, as professional involvement in FIRST is the fountainhead of engineering inspiration.
Well this is a wonderful post. Before I delve into this ridiculous content of this post, I’d just like to remind you that when you post on this forum you not only represent yourself, but your entire team. Team 1114 has had a very positive relationship with the students and teachers of 1219 over the years. I would be shocked if your entire team actually felt this way about 1114.
I’m glad you make guarantees about things you have no knowledge about. Have you visited our shop before? It’s open to all local teams to use whenever they want. Actually, this past weekend our students were busy making parts for Team 2166, a local team that we’ve been mentoring. You might want to ask them about how our team operates. Or maybe you want to continue making baseless assumptions.
I will never deny the involvement of the 1114 mentor base. I’m not ashamed of it in the slightest. We have an amazing group of mentors who work hand in hand with our students, working towards the mission of FIRST. Why is this a bad thing? Please take the time to read this post by Dave Lavery. FIRST was never intended to be a student only science fair, as you may desire. Yes our mentors are involved in the design and building of the robot. We feel this is the best way to teach and inspire each and every student on Team 1114. Last year we even started a new program, called “Big Simbot, Little Simbot”. Each 1114 student is paired with an adult mentor who is their aid, their confidante and their friend. This relationship is about more than just robotics, it is about providing role models and inspiration. But, I guess that sounds pretty dumb to you. I mean, why would we want to try and inspire our students. Its not like that is the mission of FIRST or anything…
If you’d like to learn more about our team, please don’t hesitate to contact us. I’d love to go over our team handbook, where we detail our “roadmap to success”, to help teach you about our model for a FIRST team. I’ve always stood by a team’s right to run their team however they want. If you think your team should be all student run, go for it. But down here in St. Catharines we’re very proud of how our team operates, and it’s proved very successful. The success I’m talking about isn’t our regional wins, but the amazing stories our graduates have after leaving the team. We’ve found a way to leave an indelible impact on each kid who passes through these doors. Could that really be such a bad thing?
Good luck on your roadmap to success, hopefully we’ll see you on the field or in the pits.
It has been made extremely clear how FIRST feels about mentor involvement. In my mind, this leaves no doubt that even what you allege 1114 is doing, no matter how far it is from the truth, is not something to be frowned upon.
That being said, it is very far from the truth. As *(http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=604310&postcount=5) saidbefore, I have had the tremendous opportunity to work with team 1114, and see how their team works. In no way do their mentors design and build them a robot – to the contrary, the times I have been to their shop, the mentors sit in a room outside the shop, not doing very much, while the students work hard in the shop at fabricating parts for their robot. If a student needs help with something, a mentor is instantly there to help them, however, in no way do the mentors build the robot for them. I have no personal experience with their design process for their robot, but when they helped my former team and I design ramps to be built from scratch over the course of a regional, we were very much involved in the process. Their mentors and students (who were as knowledgeable of the design process as the mentors, I might add) helped us sort through our ideas, make them possible, and execute them, in the course of three days. As students, we could not have done it on our own. In no way did their mentors do it for us. With the help and assistance of those mentors, we created ramps that might not have been the prettiest, but certainly worked very well. Students on my team learned more from working with their programming, electrical, mechanical and strategy mentors over those three days than we did over an entire build season. We were inspired. As a matter of fact, after the experience, one of our graduating members lamented that she had not had the foresight to apply to engineering at university, and is still trying to switch her program. Isn’t that what FIRST is about? Inspiration, and exposure to industry professionals?
Karthik, I think you got this wrong:
As seen here, it’s not just local teams who your shop is open to, it’s any team who needs any help whatsoever.
Please, if any of you have a chance, take Karthik up on his offer to drop into the 1114 shop. It’s not just a shop that a robot comes out of – it’s a shop where unadulterated inspiration comes out of.*
I think that what 1114 does is excellent. In any case there is no reason to be mad at any team where the mentors build the entire robot, my teams robot is 99% student built is that good yes, but I’d love to have some talented machinists working with us to help make some cool parts but I see noting wrong with mentors building robots. As long as good bonds are being made between mentors and students it what first is about. I might have to take a roadtrip to visit 1114 sometime…
(I was going to add this in as an edit to my previous post, but I felt that it really needed to stand alone.)
I think it’s terrible that 1114 has to deal with these allegations at least once a year. They do great things for their students, that’s apparent through all of the posts that are remotely informed on these boards. Get over it, guys. Stop picking on teams for doing things you think are wrong. Do your research - the organization you’re participating in doesn’t think they’re wrong. Stop making unfounded allegations. Try and bring yourself up to their level, as opposed to bringing them down to yours.
If you really want to show that a team that is more student-driven is just as good as a mentor-driven one, then focus your efforts on building an amazing robot, spreading the message of FIRST and inspiring students, and show us on the field that your robots are just as good, show us in your chairmans submissions that you do a just as good a job of inspiring students and spreading the message of FIRST. Trash-talking on these forums will not do anything.
If you can do what the program is all about just as well as they can, then why are you complaining? They inspire their students and build robots just as well as you can - who cares how they do it? I’m pretty sure they don’t care how YOU do it. They aren’t trying to force you to become more mentor-driven, why should you try to force them into becoming more student driven?
If you can’t do what the program is about just as well as they can with your current set up, think about changing your set up. If you don’t want to change your set up, and all you want to do is complain, find another organization. Maybe a science fair.
In my opinion, 1114 has become one of the most maligned teams in FIRST, just for doing what they can to inspire students. How is that right?
Ok, I’m going to say this and then I beg that we go back to making fun of Karthik for putting a box on his head
In this society, we encourage people to be the best. Then, when they become the best, we rip them down, accusing them of being inappropriately at the top. We always want to cheer on the underdog, and to bring down the people at the top. Why do we bother to encourage rising to the top if we try to bring down those who are there?
I’m going to challenge everyone to try to get over their pride. Instead of whining, complaining and accusing, open your eyes and look. There’s a reason they’re at the top. It’s because they’re good. Instead of (man do I wish what I wanted to say wouldn’t be bleaped here) whining, figure out what makes them so good. Talk to the people, whomever those people are, who designed, who built that component. The engineering talent in this program, and on team 1114 in particular, is fantastic. Do you want to be inspired? Walk into 1114’s pit, into 111’s, into 71’s pits. Tell them that you want to know how things work, that you want to learn from the best. I guarantee you that any of these teams will be happy to explain. This is where you should draw your inspiration.
It is wonderful to be inspired by pulling off something by the seat of your pants, trust me, I’ve been there. But the real inspiration in this program is the engineering. Let yourself be inspired by the best. If you allow this, you will be giving yourself one of the best gifts that this program offers.
Now, let’s continue making fun of Karthik’s new hat
1219forlife says:
I am going to go with that the mentors designed and built them another robot… and i can gaurantee it. You all know its true.
Whoever you are, you are not in our team. Stop posing as a member of our team, whomever you are; I don’t necessarily care. 1219forlife? Should be suspended (your account).
I can tell you, as stated by every other person in this same topic, this (1114) is a team of dedicated students and mentors. I shouldn’t really repeat what others have already said, since clearly you’re out beaten.
So, Ill just say, and as the majority, ditto. They’re dedicated students, and you aren’t going to take that away from them with unjustified statements like that. Dishonesty won’t take you anywhere. You’re missing out on inspiration – Without inspiration is to be without any goal; Without a goal, there would be no humanity, society, etc. So please, spare us, spare us. Rumors won’t work – So please, don’t take away hard work through mini-propaganda; It hurts.
Quite rude, I would say.
And if you are from my team, shame.
And if s/he is in our team, my apologies to 1114.
I know it’s kind of rude and mean for him to say so, but you guys are acting like its a ridiculous thought that there are some teams out there ‘who bend the rules.’
Someone wasn’t far off with the spring theory. And the thunderchickens thing is rediculously weird. I think the hat is just Karthik’s hat. Maybe they’re letting us know that things are the same. Which means that they’re still really good… But thats just my point of veiw.
Somehow I doubt it will be the only teaser of the season, but here’s a guess:
Those aren’t safety glasses Karthik is wearing, they’re special “awesome-shield” glasses so that the awesomeness radiating from him doesn’t kill us all. Everyone on 1114 is going to have to wear those glasses, and they’re going to need to put them on their robot, too. Maybe they’ll even have awesome-shield capes and gloves and stuff to protect us even more.
i have gotta admit, i love my thunder chickens T-shirt (i got it at the Autumn competition’s silent auction) i wear it every time it comes back through the laundry. wonder if I could get their team to sign it…
Nice work!