Why is it considered so bad to leave a couple of people in the pits to quietly work on the robots during opening ceremonies?
Our team went to the R2OC offseason event, and it was amazing to not be harried out of the pits to attend the ceremonies. Our team and the other teams I observed left about two people in the pits and the rest of the team went to the ceremony. The world did not end.
The rules indicate that using power tools or being noisy during ceremonies is not allowed. This implies that work is not absolutely banned at that time. At official regionals I’ve been to, the policy has tended to be that you can only be in the pit if you haven’t passed inspection yet. Why? This policy runs in strong opposition to the natural tendencies of the hard working and time pressed teams at the events. It surely creates a lot of unhappiness and stress for both teams and volunteers. Why is it necessary for us to punish ourselves?
Again, I point out that it is pretty easy for rational teams to send 90% of the team to the ceremony and leave a couple of people behind to quietly and productively get the robot ready to put on the most inspiring show possible. There is quite simply no harm in this. It is not a grave insult to anybody.
Different regionals have different policies on the issue.
Most regionals we have been to do run the strict “no one in the pits for cenemonies” rule, but not all (Midwest usually let us leave a couple people in the pit given that they were quiet).
(tip: just sit in the seats right outside the pit exit )
This is something that we’ve dealt with in the past and in our experience it’s very dependent on the event as Josh has said. At the Championship event in 2011 we had 2-3 working in our pit during the opening ceremony and were actually told by the pit administration that we were in violation of some rule from the manual. We then politely asked them if they would mind checking the manual and to their surprise we pulled up the exact section you are referring to. With the understanding that we weren’t going to use any power tools and that we were only going to have a few people working they let us remain in our pit. On the other hand we’ve tried using this same logic at regional events and been given quite a different response. I can see arguments for both sides of this debate, but as it is now the rules from FIRST do not prohibit members of your team from being in the pit area during the opening ceremonies.
Every event is a bit different with interpretations on certain things. Working during ceremonies is one of them. Another I’ve encountered is the shade of blue on safety glasses, I’ve had some Safety Advisers tell me you have to be able to see your pupils and others not care.
Specifically regarding pit work during ceremonies my take is that some view it as disrespectful. You’re supposed to stop all work and pay attention to what is going on. (Despite the fact some regional’s have a screen in the pits showing what’s going on at the field.) Similar to how some feel about technology at the dinner table.
I personally do not mind it, since technically 1 person is supposed to be in the pits at all times while they are open. In my mind this includes ceremonies, excluding the final awards one as most teams are already packed and ready to head out. Some teams to clean up and rope off their pits if they will not be in it which helps outsiders/non-team members not to poke around. Plus depending on how they do it they can see if it had been messed with when they get back.
There are very few times where I’d say its okay to be working in the pits. At the Granite State District there were so many teams who still needed to pass inspection so they were allowed to work.
Other than that you should be respectful, put the tools down, and go to opening ceremonies.
We have in the past have been shooed out of the pits for opening ceremony with the only exception of this year when we had not fully passed inspection and our matching was coming up.
In general unless you have a good reason to be in the pits (Not passed inspection/Robot blew up/etc.) you shouldn’t be in the pits.
Is that fair?
What’s allowed, reasonable, and fair is following the rules as written in the rulebook (including given head volunteer override caveats) equally for all teams.
What’s socially acceptable and won’t get you on the volunteers’ bad side is another story.
The Manual has covered this circumstance for awhile,
4.9.2 Pit Manners/Rules during the Ceremonies
Team members will not be allowed to use power tools, hammers or other noisy tools during the ceremonies
All persons in the Pit should observe the code of behavior for the presentation of all national anthems:
Maintain a respectful silence;
Stand, facing the flag. If there is no flag, look toward the video screen showing a flag; and
ALL hats off please.
4.10 PIT CLOSING ETIQUITTE
The problem here is various regionals having volunteers and regional directors decide to ignore the manual and enforce what they like, much of the time the volunteer being told to clear the pits is not even aware the above quoted rule exists, and are blindly following someone above them.
Then these volunteers should consider this before applying to said role, or check with the coordinator if they are needed during these times.
I’ve been meaning to submit this consistency problem to a Frank answers Friday sometime, teams having alotted robot access time randomly removed isn’t the greatest experience.
The opening ceremony is only ~30 minutes out of a potential 12+ hours of pit access. Go enjoy the ceremony and remember that there’s a lot of work* that can be done in the stands. That said, make sure you pay attention, clap when appropriate, and stand and remove caps for the national anthem.
*Programming, strategizing with future alliance partners…
I have never had anyone at any event ask me to leave the pit for opening ceremonies, or awards so I was unaware this was even an issue, just goes to show what issues effect different competitions. As stated above there is a clear rule stating the appropriateness of what can and can not be done, and their has only been one time where anything happened in a pit to disrupt the ceremonies that i attended and that was the 2012 South Florida Regional which was in one big basketball court, pits and all, and it was a robot driving off the teams table and making a very loud crash.
So maybe it is just me but the manual says the rules, if venue staff/volunteers choose not to follow the rules, then that is an issue that individual teams need to take up with the volunteer/regional coordinators.
Our team has been kicked out during the ceremonies. However during the ceremonies I’ve seen teams of 6 or 7 working on their robots and nothing seemed to be an issue with them.
I think it depends on whether you challenge them and whip out the rulebook.
And with the rule on safety glasses. Coloured or tinted ones at LA and Vegas are a no-no. It has to do with some safety something. I never fought it.
Then you’re not going to the right (wrong?) events. Regional competitions I have visited in the past have always trotted out the most lovely of individuals to bluntly kick out even the most troubled rookie on Friday morning. When we went to Alamo this year and DIDN’T have that happen, I was surprised. I’m sure the multiple teams, including the one our programmer and pit tech helped were thankful.
Thanks to Aren for pointing that out, because I don’t seem to read the Admin Manual cover-to-cover like I should.
Check the FRC Safety Manual. Certain colors are perfectly fine (as I recall, it’s amber, blue, and one other, I want to say red) but anything else (like reflective) is out. Not sure why, but that’s the way it is.
The rule on tinted safety glasses is so people can see your eyes. Not entirely sure how that makes things better, but basically any kind of glasses that makes seeing your eyes very possible is OK.
To play a little devil’s advocate: where in the rules does it guarantee that you can be in the pit during ceremonies? Yes, it looks like there’s a “If you’re in the pits, these are the rules,” but I don’t see anything guaranteeing that you can be in the pit. If somebody does see something with that guarantee, it has not been posted here.
Then it would indeed be up to the regional staff to decide whether being in the pits is appropriate-- though I would agree that there aren’t all that many reasons not to allow work during ceremonies. Then again, I’ve seen significantly more malicious “ignoring” of the rules at events than clearing the pits (though I think I’ve covered those grievances elsewhere).
I’m in favor of getting teams out of pits for opening ceremonies.
There’s a lot of recognition that happens at the opening ceremonies- frequently community leaders show up to congratulate the students and it’s an opportunity to recognize the volunteers (and introduce the students to some of the important ones). Planning committees spend a lot of time and energy coordinating these, so I don’t have a problem giving them a half an hour of my day to relax and enjoy the ceremony.
The ceremonies are also an excellent opportunity to excite the students and get them engaged in the competition. For new students, it makes them aware of how big the competitions can be, and introduces them to the competition format. We also all are aware how stressful practice day can be, so it’s a good opportunity to step back and take in the competition for a moment.
FIRST is also trying to make competitions similar to traditional sports competitions in many respects. When was the last time you saw members of a football or hockey team working out in the back room during the opening ceremony? Sure that might be a “better” use of their time, but I doubt many players would even consider it.
I do see exceptions being made every now and then for teams that are in desperate need of that time for one reason or another (perhaps their robot caught fire or they haven’t passed inspection and are in the first match), and that’s fine.
On a somewhat related note, I wish there was a way to make closing ceremonies mandatory. I understand some teams have a long drive, but they should stick around to support their colleagues. Plus it’s awkward when a team wins an award but has already left.
I have one suggestion. If you do have people working in your pit (quietly, of course) during ceremonies, make sure that none of them happens to be the mentor your team nominated for WFA.
It’s a little tough having to “drag” said mentor out of the pit and wait for him to show up on field. Personal experience.
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