One of the few things I feel is more important than FIRST.
In order of importance:
Eating = Using the Bathroom > Schoolwork > Voting > FIRST
As the t-shirts say, everything else is just details.
Anyone who didn’t vote has no right to complain. I voted.
Just because you’re a few states away during an election is no excuse not to vote.
I voted, so I can complain all I want to… but maybe I don’t exactly want to!
I didn’t vote. I was ill-prepared and didn’t do my research.
To all that were in my position: I hope you didn’t vote but are planning to research and vote next time.
Does this country really need more people voting so they have the right to complain? Either that, or they are voting strictly for a party without truly knowing the candidate. In both situations(even if you vote for the same person I do), I’d rather you not vote. Voting blindly is worse than not voting at all.
No. I was responding to Wayne’s comment.
Voting straight ticket (or straight yes, or straight no) is not the way to go either, unless you’ve done your research. My research was a bit last-minute, so next time will be a bit less last-minute.
The better solution is to pay attention all the time. That way you know what your government is up too and are ready to take action when necessary.
To many Americans go through life asleep.
I wasn’t trying to single anyone out. I just get tired of the “everyone should vote” mentality. Some people(those too lazy to study it) should not vote. I was one of these people this time. I wasn’t last time though, and don’t plan to be next time.
Only on Chief Delphi can there be 8 posts on voting with noone giving their political views. This was extremely hard for me as I have very strong and one sided views, but I know this is a non-political forum. Its too bad that there is no forum that I know of to discuss politics the way we discuss issues here, with reasoned arguments and all trying to give honest respectful opinions even when we dissagree.
IndySam, I agree with you 100%. Please pay attention!
It hasn’t been and isn’t always like this. Searches will turn up threads that show the opinionated and intolerant sides that can erupt. The threads will also show posts by the folks that run CD reminding us that ChiefDelphi was created by an FRC team, providing opportunities for networking and shared interests in robotics/FIRST. There have also been threads created discussing the purpose/impact of Chit Chat, presenting the pros and cons. The history of discussions and the appropriate use of CD is interesting to read and think about.
It is also always interesting to note who does not post in threads and to think about what those reasons could be. Since the days that I read but didn’t post in ChiefDelphi, I have always been aware of that aspect of this marvelous fora adventure.
Jane
Well Im not of age yet to vote (18 in 1 year and 2 months) but I have a serious question about voting. How/where do I get the real information about the proposed propositions and cadidates? All you hear on TV and on line is bottom line propaganda. Well you never really know a candidates’ real motives but propositions must be easier to interprete. I personally did not like elections; there are too much “mud slinging”. I do not know if it is really democracy at work in these elections, but more like “who can appeal to the public better through the media”.
In California, the Secretary of State publishes a voter information guide for the propositions. This is prepared by multiple people, the Secretary of State, the Attorney General, and Legislative Analysts. It is mailed to every household with a person who is registered to vote.
For each proposition, it includes a summary of the proposition, history related to issue that the proposition covers, potential impacts of the proposition, arguments for and against the proposition, and the text of the proposition. I find that taking the time to slog through the legalese in the proposition text is often very valuable. One thing to look for in the impacts section is the assumptions that are explicitly and implicitly made, and whether they make sense.
The thing to do is find people with similar views and find out what they know. The ads and most campaign mailers are virtually worthless, because the candidates and proposition supporters pay to be included in them. The only thing you can learn from mailers is who has the money to pay for mailers. I learned this from reading the fine print on the mailers.
My own personal example (and this will NOT apply to everyone, of course!) is that I am a Christian and am conservative in many (but not all) of my political views. There is a man in our area named Craig Huey who does seminars and has a website, electionforum.org. He rates the candidates–even the judges–and makes recommendations on candidates and ballot propositions. He also explains his rating system, based on Christian and conservative values. His website is pretty simple, but some of his in-person seminars can get pretty detailed. For example, he explained his reservations about Meg Whitman.
If you are liberal, socialist, or some other viewpoint than that of Craig Huey, you could look at his website to figure out who you would NOT vote for. But it would be better if you found groups–PACs, interest groups, etc., who have a similar viewpoint to yours. You may also find yourself involved with a group that has a stake in the outcome of certain elections. AAA, AARP, labor unions, business associations and others sometimes publish opinions about these things. There are people who track the voting records of elected officials, and people who review judges’ decisions.
I agree with Joe Ross that the California ballot pamphlet is a good resource. I always read the summary information. Usually that doesn’t help me decide, so I read the legislative analysis. Often I still can’t decide, so I read the arguments for and against. Beware of those, however–the people writing those are never objective, and often they twist the facts, and sometimes outright lie. But they may make a point I haven’t considered. As a last resort, I will read the text. If I can’t understand it, I vote NO. Sometimes the text reveals crazy stuff, like the transportation bond measure that included funding for an art museum in the Bay Area.
This last election, I was astonished to find that Dianne Feinstein was one of the two signers of the argument AGAINST Prop. 19, the marijuana initiative. I have trouble believing she is against legalization of pot, but she had an interesting argument against the ballot measure. I encouraged everyone to read her argument–not just because I was so amazed, but also as a ploy to get people to actually READ the ballot pamphlet!
My point is, don’t give up. There are sources of information out there. You will be able to find them, if you look. And remember that everyone in the political process is human, which means you will find imperfections and absurdities just about everywhere.
I reserve the right to complain about things that I can’t vote for.
There’s no better place to discuss politics on Chief Delphi than in the Chit-Chat forum. (Actually: confine the politics to this forum!) We do occasionally have good, reasoned political discussions here, though I’m a little disappointed that they’re no longer as popular as they once were. (Have a look through the Chit-Chat archives for threads leading up to the 2004 U.S. federal elections, for example.)
Just speaking hypothetically, how would you feel if election fundraising and campaigning were strictly regulated and limited to (for example) two months before the election date? (With primary elections, if any, held independently and handled by the parties, not the state.) Would the (inevitable) advertising frenzy and media circus be more tolerable in that case?
That’s the way it works in many places outside the U.S. (though the limitation period varies)…and I’d say it’s a major contributing factor to the vastly different political atmosphere elsewhere.
A few words from some very intelligent, democratic thinkers…
Elections belong to the people. It is their decision. If they decide to turn their back on the fire and burn their behinds, then they will just have to sit on their blisters.
Abraham Lincoln
The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.
Alice Walker
Politics ought to be the part-time profession of every citizen who would protect the rights and privileges of free people and who would preserve what is good and fruitful in our national heritage.
Dwight D. Eisenhower
But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
Declaration of Independence
The ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all. Kennedy, John F.
If you will do all you can to build a robot that meets the demands of 50+ pages of rules and spend the better part of six weeks doing so, why would you even think that a day or two spent in researching the candidates and actually voting is a waste of time? Freedom is not a gift, democracy is not your right. These are things one must earn through good citizenship. I voted for Richard Nixon in my first voting experience. I made that choice thinking I was voting for the lesser of two evils. I know now that I was still voting for evil. I did not make that choice ever again. I am not giving you the direction to stay home because you do not know the candidates, I am telling you to put down the Wii and do some research before you vote, but vote!
I have thought that many times. I was reminded of it by your post, and it had even greater meaning given this topic.
Then I read what Al S. wrote.
Yeah. What he said.
Wisdom shared is priceless, isn’t it?
And timeless.
Jane
David, you hit upon one of my biggest frustrations. To me it has gotten worse in the last ten years. The misinformation or outright lies some of the politicians tell are quite easily disproven but people believe them anyway. I really think the press is a large part of the problem. The main media mostly reports what both sides say when what they should be doing is figuring out the truth.
Daniel Patrick Moynihan said “Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but they are not entitled to their own facts”
Actually, freedom IS a gift that was “bought” for us at a high price, even the shedding of blood, by those who came before us. But, like any good gift, it must be maintained, even by blood if necessary, in order to pass it on to those who come after us.
The website I mentioned in my previous post has an article discussing whether one should “vote only on principle” or “vote for the greater good.” It describes two different positions on this subject, and the reasoning behind each. I have decided, based on disappointments with “electable” candidates, that when I clearly prefer a less-popular candidate, I will send my vote that direction. I hope that if more people vote for what they consider the “best” candidate, not the “lesser of two evils” candidate, we might be able to send a message to the major parties that we are not pleased with wishy-washy, fence-straddling politicians.
Unfortunately, in the June 2010 primaries in California, the voters gutted the party system and the primaries. In future general elections, we will only be able to vote for the two most popular candidates. Typically, these are the ones that look best on TV and have the most money to spend on ads, and most likely belong to one of the two main parties. 
An admirable notion, but I fear that any message to politicians that don’t go through the main media or show up on their desk will fall upon deaf ears. I don’t really call it the “lesser of two evils” approach. I just vote for the one that will mess up in the places that I care about least. Honestly, they are all going to mess something up. I know I’d mess something up if I ran a political office(though I hope it’d be less then the standard rate).