Pop socket hatch panel ground pickup

So, the rules in the game manual says that teams are not allowed to use any adhesive devices to pickup game pieces. Our team from 1189, have been talking about using silicon gel pads or substance that are used on pop sockets to pick up hatch panels from the ground. We have said that this material doesn’t actually adhere to the surface but rather sticks onto the game object and leaves no residue or marks on the game piece. We used that same argument for teams, like the RI3D teams, who used Velcro to pick up the hatches in comparison for a silicon gel pad type material. Can anybody explicitly define what FIRST means by no adhesive devices and can tell us if the pop socket sticky material, the silicon gel, is legal for ground pickup?

If it is to be ruled illegal, what’s stopping you from using velcro?

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Im gonna boldly say that I believe it will most likely be against the no adhesive rule

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We have said that with Velcro, that from the panel and from our Velcro that it will wear often and loose it’s gripping ability and thus we would have to replace the Velcro itself constantly. With the silicon material, if dirt and grime get onto the sticky stuff, we can just clean it with some soapy water and found that it’s just as sticky as if it’s brand new. We just really want FIRST to define adhesion more explicitly.

“able to stick fast to a surface or object; sticky.”
Not FIRST definition but rather the general definition of adhesive. Sounds like your pop socket deal meets the criteria of an adhesive. Also if I tried pulling the pop socket off of my phone right now there would definitely be some residue left on there…

Where in the rule does it state that we are not allowed to use adhesive devices to pickup game pieces?

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If the hook and loop is too unreliable to hold via your robot, it would be too unreliable to hold on the field, which means that the hook and loop will most likely be cycled/replaced on the field.

“Adhesion: the sticking together of particles of different substances.”

If there is no mechanical engagement, it’s most likely adhesion. Hook and loop “sticks” by physical interference and “tangling” of the hooks in the loop sections, so it is not adhesion.

Someone please cite the actual text of the rule that allegedly bans adhesives. The rule I’m familiar with bans substances that leave adhesive residue on a game piece. It would stand to reason that if you can conclusively demonstrate that your material does not leave a mark, residue, or other contaminant on the game piece, it would not be ruled illegal under this rule. I don’t know if the verbiage changed this year, but a quick search through the manual doesn’t indicate a ban on adhesives.

In fact, teams have used adhesives to control game pieces before, being very careful to select adhesives that do not leave residue. 3138’s robot in the 2010 game stands out as an example; it initially used double stick tape as a mechanism for controlling a soccer ball.

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G15.
C. Attaching (including the use of hook-and-loop tape to anchor to the FIELD carpet and excluding use of the PLAYER STATION hook-and-loop tape, plugging in to the provided outlet, and plugging the provided Ethernet cable in to he OPERATOR CONSOLE.

-I believe this is the rule people are talking about

This rule is discussing attaching to the FIELD carpet, not attaching to game pieces.

you are correct I read the manual a couple times and seems to be the only place talking about adhesives.

G15 explicitly states, " Items A-D exclude GAME PIECES and the HAB PLATFORM." So Item C does not apply to GAME PIECES. The item that might be applicable is G. Damaging, if you can argue that leaving behind adhesive residue was damaging to a game piece.

The way I read the manual, as long as you don’t damage or mark (leave residue) on the game piece. (which a pop socket shouldn’t, in my opinion) I think you are fine

Here is the blue box from G15 for reference:

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It says to be careful about what you interact with. DRIVE TEAMS, ROBOTS, and OPERATOR
CONSOLES are prohibited from the following actions with regards to interaction with ARENA
elements. Items A-D exclude GAME PIECES and the HAB PLATFORM.
A. Grabbing (excluding DRIVE TEAM interaction with FIELD elements in their areas)
B. Grasping (excluding DRIVE TEAM interaction with FIELD elements in their areas)
C. Attaching (including the use of hook tape to anchor to the FIELD carpet and excluding use
of the PLAYER STATION hook-and-loop tape, plugging in to the provided power outlet, and
plugging the provided Ethernet cable in to the OPERATOR CONSOLE)
D. Hanging
E. Deforming
F. Becoming entangled

With the A-D exemption for game pieces, then you should be fine, regardless of whether or not it leaves any residue, though that might be in violation of G, which is damaging.