I am looking to update the Driver Station Laptop for the team. I received the one from first choice last year. It cannot handle camera and shuffle board without lagging the robot controls. What would the minimum requirements suggested to perform well as a driver station and a programming laptop? We currently run a very outdated ThinkPad. It is very durable and has survived a few crashes in competitions. The battery is getting weak. Does anyone make a durable computer that is not expensive?
We currently have a ThinkPad from 2018 that has an i7, 16gb ram, and a 1tb ssd and its been working pretty well but we will need to change it when Microsoft shuts down Windows 10 in October 2025.
Edit: It’s actually an i5
Driver station reqs are pretty low. Look for a SSD and a full sized ethernet port.
We haven’t moved yet but are llking to replace ours. I was thinking maybe this one Ace Aspire 7
You could always go for a used Thinkpad off of Ebay or another site like that. Most of them have full sized Ethernet and are usually pretty affordable. This is what I found while quickly looking: Thinkpad T480s
Just a suggestion, consider having a separate laptop for driver station from any team programming laptops. We’ve found a benefit to keeping the driver station laptop “pristine” only putting on it what’s needed for driving, and configuration tools for motors, etc. It also helps contention issues between programming and drive practice, and I really like having the driver station always connected to the robot network while programming/debugging.
ThinkPad, ThinkPad, ThinkPad.
In particular, semi-old ThinkPads (pre-2017? or so) are powerful enough to stably run Shuffleboard, DS, and Windows 10/11, durable, reliable, generally have physical Ethernet ports, and have enough USB ports to accommodate at least 3 joysticks.
I would recommend the X220, but unfortunately it’s not powerful enough to run Windows 10/11 super reliably.
One thing to be careful of with older machines is pretty much anything built prior to ~2018 will not be compatible with Windows 11, which requires a Intel 8th-generation (e.g. Kaby Lake R, 8xxx, released in 2018Q1) or AMD Ryzen 2000 (or newer) processor, as well as support for TPM 2.0. Windows 10 extended support is currently scheduled to end on Oct 14, 2025.
This is the reason for having both on one laptop. The last year we have used a desktop with USB to RIO. We seem to get strange issues when not deploying from the driver station laptop (encoder and motor directions change). We really like the ThinkPad we have, I just know it is going to be outdated.
I mean, that’s a deeper issue. Deploying should work from any laptop, wired or wireless. Maybe try re-imaging your rio?
Thet being said, I do agree that the drive station should only have what is necessary on it; you really don’t want it to fail during a match, and Windows can be fickle sometimes. We have a separate team laptop we bring to competitions for code work (so that we don’t have a bunch of people working off of an individual’s personal laptop), but we never work off of the drive station.
TIL. I thought I couldn’t dislike modern Windows anymore.
There are a bunch of threads on this already.
Anyways, seconding used thinkpad suggestion.
Old dells (the ones that won’t support windows 11) tend to be pretty decent too, as long as they’re enterprise or business class.
Ya want a new machine, get an Acer or Asus AMD Ryzen based thin and light and use an Ethernet to usb adapter if it doesn’t have Ethernet. More expensive option (if you need the power) is to get a budget gaming machine from those two companies but unless you’re using this laptop for CAD or video editing or something you should not need that power.
I’ve heard good things about Framework machines as well, might be interesting to see how those work for driver stations. Anyone know if there’s a team that uses them?
More importantly, do not get anything new made by Dell or any Microsoft surface. Dell and Microsoft machines are overpriced and tend to break a lot, and can’t be repaired cheaply (or at all in some cases).
Regardless, stay on Win10 as long as you can. Speaking as a repair tech, 10 is much better than 11.
For those developing the driver station, any chance there’s a Linux edition on its way before Windows 10 loses support entirely? I don’t think I’m the only one who plans to never move to windows 11 if at all possible. (Yes, I’d be on 7 if I still could run Solidworks on it)
Almost certainly not. The current driver station uses a lot of windows specific APIs, particularly for networking and joysticks, and there’s not likely to be an overhaul by NI in the next year or two.
That being said, the 2027 control system RFP may include the driver station, so who knows? Maybe you’llLimelight, an integrated vision coprocessor get lucky.
Our team used one for the later part of the 2023 season. Highly recommend it if you can afford one.
They are very well built, and the reparability/upgradeability is great for the FRCFIRST Robotics Competition use case.
pleaaaaase FIRST
To echo what I have recommended in the past.
Any of the Enterprise Class laptops from Lenovo or Dell are amazing (ThinkPad or Latitude), also look for laptops that have extra USB ports and physical ethernet, External USB Hubs and Ethernet dongles are just another point of failure.
In addition, do a clean install of Windows (or at a minimum remove any third party antivirus software), Enterprise Class laptops almost never ship with “Bloatware” but it’s always good to check.
Finally I cannot overstate this enough, as someone who manages Windows in the Enterprise. DO NOT use any “Optimizer Scripts” or “Decrapifiers” for Windows, These cause so many more problems than they claim to solve, If you want stable Windows don’t use these.
Thank you all for the answers. Most are the same as previous threads. I guess my main unanswered question is on durability. The ThinkPad we have has a latch on the lid and is very very robust. It can handle a fall from behind the glass. I am asking if there are any alternatives like a Toughbook or Getac. Does anyone have any experience with something like this? Is it worth investing long-term into some thing like this?
Dell Latitudes are really well built.
Anything else made by dell is a pass on that tbh.
If you need the durability you need an ssd regardless, hdds will not survive that lol.
Most Enterprise Class laptops are already more durable then consumer grade devices. If you want something that can get run over by a car or fall two stories, then a Panasonic Toughbook (The laptops FIRST ships for use field side) or something from Dell’s Latitude Rugged line is definitely an option.
And yes, regardless of what laptop you pick, get something with an SSD.
Not an endorsement to drop a dell latitude rugged or a panasonic toughbook, or run them over with a car.
Now, a Nokia 3310, yes.
I’m not sure I can fully agree with this. Yes, they are points of failure, but they are modular points of failure. i.e., if after unplugging the laptop Ethernet cable 500 times the port becomes wonky (technical term), I can easily swap out an Ethernet dongle, but I might need a new laptop if I’m using a built in port. (Unless using a Framework laptop, as mentioned earlier)