Proposal for 2001 - Multiple Leagues

FIRST General Forum
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Posted by Raul.

Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.

Posted on 12/24/99 4:05 PM MST

This has been discussed before, but here goes anyways:

I think it is time FIRST seriously consider dividing the competition into divisions/leagues stratified by effort and cost. There are two good reasons:

  1. There are some new teams that have considered FIRST but did not do it because of the costs, resources and time commitments involved.
    Many teams have dropped out (ie. Beatty, Plymouth North) for the same reasons.
  2. At some point, FIRST will have more teams than they can deal with, all in one league. Many other sports have the different levels of play, why not FIRST.

Then again, maybe teams will all get burned out and the growth will slow down and even stop. But that is not what we want - we want FIRST to be as popular as the NFL - right?

After participating in the Chief Delphi Invitational competition, I couldn’t help but think that it was an excellent step between Lego League and FIRST.
The event format would be perfect for rookie teams and those that just don’t have the resources to compete in a full FIRST event. Since the rules did not allow precision machining, the cost were kept to a minimum beyond the entrance fee. In case you didn’t already realize it, a large majority of the cost for the top end teams (~35% for us) is paying someone to do the precision machining of many parts. The other large expense is sending the team to the nationals (~30% for us)

I would propose at least the following league levels:

  1. The Expert League - Same as the FIRST format today.
  2. The Bastoni Do-it-again League - Teams use the same rules as the previous year and thus could just tweak their bots to minimize efforts and costs for that year.
  3. The CDI-Like League - Teams use the same rules as the Expert league except that they cannot use precision machining and may be given less time to develop a their bots.
  4. The Lego League - Just as it is today.
    and if FIRST ever gets as big (or wants to get as big) as the NFL or NBA:
  5. The Pro League - FIRST sets the game and machine rules but teams have a much wider selection of what they can use to make their bots - just like NASCAR.

There are many other variables that would need to be considered such as:
Do they all run at the same time or are they spread out throughout the year.
Do they all have a national event?

What does everyone think - am I nuts?

Raul

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Posted by Mike McIntyre.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Coach on team #1, Juggernaut, from Oakland Technical Center Northeast and 3 Dimensional Services.

Posted on 12/25/99 10:31 PM MST

In Reply to: Proposal for 2001 - Multiple Leagues posted by Raul on 12/24/99 4:05 PM MST:

Yes,Raul, you are nuts; however, that in no way detracts from your proposal which I feel is an excellent one and needs to be seriously considered; in our state, HS sports are are ranked into ‘classes’ based on school size (a fairly direct reflection of resources); college sports have similiar divisions; it evens the playing field within the divisions and, as I’ve said before on this page, nobody really cares when they win a championship if they’re the ‘Class C State Champs’ and not a ‘Class A’ school: they’re too busy celebrating!

: This has been discussed before, but here goes anyways:

: I think it is time FIRST seriously consider dividing the competition into divisions/leagues stratified by effort and cost. There are two good reasons:
: 1) There are some new teams that have considered FIRST but did not do it because of the costs, resources and time commitments involved.
: Many teams have dropped out (ie. Beatty, Plymouth North) for the same reasons.
: 2) At some point, FIRST will have more teams than they can deal with, all in one league. Many other sports have the different levels of play, why not FIRST.

: Then again, maybe teams will all get burned out and the growth will slow down and even stop. But that is not what we want - we want FIRST to be as popular as the NFL - right?

: After participating in the Chief Delphi Invitational competition, I couldn’t help but think that it was an excellent step between Lego League and FIRST.
: The event format would be perfect for rookie teams and those that just don’t have the resources to compete in a full FIRST event. Since the rules did not allow precision machining, the cost were kept to a minimum beyond the entrance fee. In case you didn’t already realize it, a large majority of the cost for the top end teams (~35% for us) is paying someone to do the precision machining of many parts. The other large expense is sending the team to the nationals (~30% for us)

: I would propose at least the following league levels:
: 1) The Expert League - Same as the FIRST format today.
: 2) The Bastoni Do-it-again League - Teams use the same rules as the previous year and thus could just tweak their bots to minimize efforts and costs for that year.
: 3) The CDI-Like League - Teams use the same rules as the Expert league except that they cannot use precision machining and may be given less time to develop a their bots.
: 4) The Lego League - Just as it is today.
: and if FIRST ever gets as big (or wants to get as big) as the NFL or NBA:
: 5) The Pro League - FIRST sets the game and machine rules but teams have a much wider selection of what they can use to make their bots - just like NASCAR.

: There are many other variables that would need to be considered such as:
: Do they all run at the same time or are they spread out throughout the year.
: Do they all have a national event?

: What does everyone think - am I nuts?

: Raul

3

Posted by Branden Gunn.

Other on team #246, formerly of team #23, and another FIRST-aholic, from John D. O’Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy/Madison High School/Boston University Academy and Boston Edison/Boston University/Wentworth Institute of Technology/MassPEP.

Posted on 12/27/99 9:19 PM MST

In Reply to: Proposal for 2001 - Multiple Leagues posted by Raul on 12/24/99 4:05 PM MST:

: I would propose at least the following league levels:
: 1) The Expert League - Same as the FIRST format today.

This could use the same season schedule as it does now as well.

: 2) The Bastoni Do-it-again League - Teams use the same rules as the previous year and thus could just tweak their bots to minimize efforts and costs for that year.

Can anyone say Rumble at the Rock or Mayhem at the Merrimack? We just need to get FIRST to officially integrate and fund the awesome summer competitions, because I know what it takes in the way of resources.

: 3) The CDI-Like League - Teams use the same rules as the Expert league except that they cannot use precision machining and may be given less time to develop a their bots.

These should run from September(when school has started) to November or December, as sort of a Pre-Expert League starter competition, team 246 did something like this with an internal Lego competition to get our different members introduced to the people from other schools, so they are more comfortable with each other when the real thing starts up.

: 4) The Lego League - Just as it is today.

One of my favorites.

: and if FIRST ever gets as big (or wants to get as big) as the NFL or NBA:
: 5) The Pro League - FIRST sets the game and machine rules but teams have a much wider selection of what they can use to make their bots - just like NASCAR.

FIRST should do this anyway, as SPI is THE most expensive place to get parts, though I do think they have a decent selection. Maybe the Pro league would be for teams with more money and have a higher weight & $$$ limit. Also lke NASCAR, many regionals and no national event where a cumulative score is kept and Awards are given at an event held in Manchester, sort of an end of year Wrap Up meeting.

: What does everyone think - am I nuts?
: Raul

We’re all nuts…
Gunn
‘Out of my mind and lovin’ it.’

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