Posted by nuts4first.
Engineer on team #340, (TBD), from Churchville-Chili and Nortel Networks.
Posted on 12/22/99 2:07 PM MST
FIRST LAN PROPOSAL
Draft
PURPOSE:
The purpose of this message is to generate interest and discussion for a Local Area Network that would be in place at the National Competition. Given the current time frame, implementing this idea would not be feasible until the 2001 season.
BACKGROUND:
The main reason to have a LAN at the National Competition would be so that teams could access a common web server. This server would be updated regularly with general competition announcements, scoring tables, and other information. There could also be an administrative subnet for use by FIRST staff only.
Basically what would happen here is this: A group of people would work during the off season to set allot of this up. The server can be build & programmed and the network can be designed. The server could sit on site or be remotely connected to over a WAN. During the competition a team would plug in their laptop, be assigned an IP address (via DHCP in the reserved 10.x.x.x address space), and then use their web browser to access the server. Any information can be stored on the server, including some of the data that ‘scouting crews’ typically assemble.
LAN HIGHLIGHTS:
One Ethernet jack per team at their pit area
Extra connections in other areas
Kiosks around the event where spectators could access the site
DHCP server to assign addresses
Separate subnet for FIRST Administration.
So what does everyone think? I would be willing to advise on the network design, I don’t know about the web server side of the network. I may even be able to get use of some hubs and routers.
-Nuts4first
Posted by Joe Johnson. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
Posted on 12/23/99 6:52 AM MST
In Reply to: Proposal for a LAN at the National Competition posted by nuts4first on 12/22/99 2:07 PM MST:
Chris,
Who knows what a year will bring, but I don’t know if most teams will have with them the means to connect to such a network.
I think that as an intermediate step, it would be nice if FIRST actually used the web to post scores & rankings etc. LIVE. In this way, teams around the country could keep up with a tournament AND the results would be on the web already rather than having to have crazed teams like Chief Delphi and others up load the results back a the hotel rooms.
If teams would be able to access the web from their pits, then perhaps we’d have the start of what you are describing. Yes it would be inefficent to go through the web to access a server that is in the next room, but since when has the web been about efficient use of bandwidth ;-). I think that most teams could come up with a laptop with a modem & a browser installed.
Besides, This MAY lead to an even better idea which I will share with you now: Set up a temporary telephone system in the pits! Every pit having its own phone line (or two – one for the web) with its own dial in extension & voice mail etc. This would let teams & FIRST leave messages for teams. It would allow you to phone to the pits (via phones near the field) for spare parts. It would open up a whole range of things that we could do.
Think about it…
Joe J.
Posted by Joe Johnson. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
Posted on 12/23/99 7:18 AM MST
In Reply to: Forget the WAN, give me a PHONE… posted by Joe Johnson on 12/23/99 6:52 AM MST:
How about a simple thing like a team pager?
Each team would be given a pager at the registration (perhaps even at the kickoff?). Then FIRST could get messages to teams via this pager. Restaurants do it for people in line, couldn’t FIRST make this happen as well?
If we were lucky enough to have alpha pagers, then even messages like: ‘You are on Deck on Field B’ or ‘Report to the pits for inspection’ or ‘A judge would like to talk about your Delphi Power to Simplify Award submission’ could be sent.
The more I think about it, the more useful such a system would be not only for FIRST but for every one involved. Is it time to get a pager company involved at FIRST so that we could make this happen?
Maybe.
Joe J.
P.S. Why not go whole hog and ask for a team wireless phone with alpha paging, voice mail etc. built in? I don’t know all the ins and outs of the various plans but this seems like it could really be fairly easy to do. Comments?
Posted by Patrick Seeney.
Student on team #469, Las Guerrillas, from Oakland Robotics and Lawrence Technological University.
Posted on 12/23/99 8:02 AM MST
In Reply to: And would a pager be too much to ask? posted by Joe Johnson on 12/23/99 7:18 AM MST:
I agree with Joe. While in the pits, there are too many thigns going on at once to be paying attention to the loud speakers, at the same as the music is playing, and get out there on time. With a team pager, First could let us know in advance, and we wouldn’t miss our call.
With the phone idea, that could be helpful. How m any times did we see talking with other teams about questions that we had, or trying to find a part, and there were tons of people in the way. I found this to be a problem last year at Great Lakes. The only time one could manage to walk around was at 9 at night when only engineers and students still working on the robot remained. I think Joe’s idea would be great, and with companies such as Motorola, why couldn’t this possibility be a reality???
Pat
Posted by Lora Knepper.
Student on team #69, HYPER, from Quincy Public Schools and The Gillette Company.
Posted on 12/23/99 1:56 PM MST
In Reply to: And would a pager be too much to ask? posted by Joe Johnson on 12/23/99 7:18 AM MST:
I totally agree! A pager would allow teams to keep informed as to where they needed to be and when ect. I know that as a driver for my team, I was looking into getting a pager so that my team could get a hold of me if any emergancy situation arrived. It only makes sense that a competition base on technology should have a better way too keep in touch. As for LAN, I remember some teams that we not as fortunate as the rest of us on sponsor donations. I’m wondering if some of these teams that have difficuly getting themselve and their machine to cometition, will have the means to access a network…
Lora Knepper
team 69 HYPER
Posted by Mike King.
Other on team #88, TJ², from Bridgewater Raynham and Johnson & Johnson Professional.
Posted on 12/24/99 7:55 AM MST
In Reply to: And would a pager be too much to ask? posted by Joe Johnson on 12/23/99 7:18 AM MST:
The pager/Phone/Vmail idea is great. (Can you say NEXTEL?)
My only comment is this. The college I work for has a building called the Moakley center. In this building is close to 300+ computers/1500 Network Jacks/ associated equipement all in close proximity to each other.
We have only found two pager services work in this building. (MoblieComm, and NeXtel) Basicly, we invited a bunch of pager suppliers to our building, and told them if they could get there pager to work in the center of this building, they could have the contract for our entire college.
I’m imagining that a first competition would pose many of same interference problems that we run into. We should have some way of assuring that the signal goes thru, maybe one of those pagers that has the confirmation. They keep trying to send the message till the pager signals back that it got the message. (completely automated) Nextel’s have Vmail that is stored offlocation from the phone, so if it was out of service, it could still get it.
Just something to think of.
Posted by Raul.
Engineer on team #111, Wildstang, from Rolling Meadows & Wheeling HS and Motorola.
Posted on 12/23/99 9:18 PM MST
In Reply to: Forget the WAN, give me a PHONE… posted by Joe Johnson on 12/23/99 6:52 AM MST:
: Besides, This MAY lead to an even better idea which I will share with you now: Set up a temporary telephone system in the pits! Every pit having its own phone line (or two – one for the web) with its own dial in extension & voice mail etc. This would let teams & FIRST leave messages for teams. It would allow you to phone to the pits (via phones near the field) for spare parts. It would open up a whole range of things that we could do.
: Joe J.
It would be too cost prohibitive to set up a wired phone/LAN system in the pits for all teams. Many of the wireless LAN concepts being developed by Motorola were designed precisely for this type of temporary setup. Motorola has many wireless technologies that can easily serve the needs of maintaining the teams informed (this is what they are all about). I hope that didn’t sound like a commercial.
Motorola is no longer providing R-nets because Innovation First is providing a custom design. So, Moto may be willing to donate a wireless system for the nationals. They have done this for many other events. I think if FIRST were to approach Motorola with a proposal explaining the need and how the system would be used, since they are a major sponsor, they may do it. And it may not be too late for 2000 if FIRST acts quickly.
Raul