Q #88 for Control Panel & G12

88 G12. Leave the opponent’s CONTROL PANEL alone - clarification please?

Provided there is no violation of G10 or G12, can a robot interact with their opponent’s CONTROL PANEL, possibly causing it to over-rotate or no longer be on the assigned color?
asked a day ago by FRC 3229

CONTROL PANEL

Answer

Yes, a ROBOT may interact with an opponent’s CONTROL PANEL, provided that G12 is not violated.

G12. Leave the opponent’s CONTROL PANEL alone. A ROBOT may not contact the opponent’s
CONTROL PANEL, either directly, or transitively through a POWER CELL, if
A. the opponent ROBOT is contacting that CONTROL PANEL, and
B. the opponent’s POWER PORT has reached CAPACITY
Violation: Opponents are awarded one (1) SHIELD GENERATOR ENERGIZED Ranking Point if
not completed at the conclusion of the MATCH.

If I read this right a red team could potentially spin the wheel after the blue team moved away from the control panel.

For Rotation it could reset the counter if done within 5 seconds and exceeded 5 spins, red would have to start the 3 spins again.

For Position (color) a quick spin could change the color if done within 5 seconds and red would have to realign the color to get the rank point.

The use of “and” in G12A would leave this opening. G12 A and B are required.

Are you willing to risk it to deny a rank point?

The bottom line is that the CP-manipulating robot should wait, in contact with the CP, until the stage is fully ACTIVATED.

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Alternatively it’s likely that the posts and bolts between the top and bottom faces of the Control Panel are made of steel, and thus magnetic. Influencing them via magnets would not be contact directly or transitively through a power cell. I heavily doubt it would be worth it in any scenario but I think it’s technically legal at any time, as long as you aren’t in physical contact anywhere else.

Personally I’m having my team stay at the control panel until the control panel lights finish flashing. A delay of 2-3 seconds is worth it.
edited to include ‘contact’

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How do you figure?

It is manipulation, but not contact. G12 outlaws contact.

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You are correct. It is only protected after CAPACITY is reached, while an ALLIANCE ROBOT is touching it. If they leave it is fair game. Obviously if this becomes a thing, the counter is stay until the ROTATION or POSITION are awarded.

It’s never going to matter, but is it clear if position control can be earned with less than 5 seconds remaining on the match timer? Hanging and final Power Port scoring take place 5 seconds after the match ends but there is no equivalent statement in section 4.4.3.

88 combined with Q 105 is interesting. You can know to spin the wheel 3 times and stop on a certain color, then score 20 balls and stage 3 will activate without requiring a return to the Control Panel.

This is assuming that you can score at a minimum 20 balls after the other alliance reaches stage 3, but before the end of the match. If you are behind by that much, I think you’ve earned the slight boost to your scoring effort. :slight_smile:

Agreed. This applies to the leading alliance if too if they think sitting still will save them 2+ seconds later in the match.

I’m presuming the alliance that activates stage 3 first (the action that prompts the FMS for a color) has a pretty significant lead if they have scored at least 20 more balls than the other alliance.

Ah, you’re more correct than me. I was badly misinterpreting reaching capacity (It’s the 20th ball not the 1st).

If you edit your post to replace “activates” with “reaches capacity on”, then it’s correct. Activate is its own defined term.

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I wonder if the FMS is random or will default to one of the 3 colors not currently marked by the sensor by the first team.

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p28 - “FMS relays a specified color (randomly selected by FMS and one (1) of the three (3) colors not currently read by the ALLIANCE’S TRENCH color sensor)”

Thanks for the quick clarification.

This was discussed today with the team. More than a few team members saw it as “crossing a moral line” and would consider it a reason to avoid picking them.

If its legal, im not really opposed to it. Dont think its going to be a fun time when an uninformed team loses their RP because of this and they try to fight it though…

I agree with you, if it is legal by the rules use it you advantage. Like tax laws. :crazy_face:

If they have done everything to earn the rank point and you have a opportunity to steal it why not, you also take away points, the only thing you loose is they are awarded the rank point that they already earned. Rank points in payoffs don’t matter, but points do.