Q597
Does modifying the software (ex: uploading code, installing a new operating system, etc.) on a COTS computing device make it classified under a “fabricated item” (such as a motor with leads added)? And thus, would a COTS computing device therefore be included in the 30lb withholding allowance when brought in to an event?
Answer
Yes, loading software intended to be used for use in competition would make the item no longer in an “unaltered, unmodified state” which is a requirement for it to be a COTS part.
So here is what I take away from this.
So now we have to purchase a new laptop for the driver’s station every year? Even if we re-image the system it is still not in an “unaltered, unmodified state”.
A 10lb laptop is now part of the 30lb withholding allowance.
Since the laptop is now a fabricated item, there is a $400 limit on the price.
How many teams didn’t place the laptop in the bag with the robot?
If you didn’t bag your laptop, think about this.
Just turning on a laptop and signing on changes the device and it is no longer in an “unaltered, unmodified state”, So you’ll have to do all the system installs at the events.
If you go to multiple events, will you need a new laptop for each?
I really think the GDC missed the boat on this question. I agree that physically modifying a laptop means it is a fabricated device, but installing the driver’s station software?
Your drivers station is not part of your robot. It doesn’t matter if any part of the drivers station is COTS.
If you were using a secondary processor on your robot, and it used custom software stored on a chip or hard drive on the device, writing the software onto the device alters it from as purchased condition, and it’s no longer COTS. Take a Raspberry Pi as an example. As I recall, the software for a Pi is stored on an SD card. You could bring spare Pi’s without counting them towards the weight allowance. But a pre-written SD card would count. If you mounted the Pi in an case, the assembly of the case and the Pi would also count as a fabricated assembly, as the act of assembling them means both the Pi and the case are no longer in their as-purchsed condition.
Your Driver Station is not, and never has been, part of your robot. You don’t get the driver station laptop inspected. You don’t weigh your laptop.
I am certain this question was clearly in regards to putting computing devices on-board the robot, such as a Raspberry Pi for vision. While a Pi by itself is clearly a COTS part, a Pi configured with software to detect vision targets is not.
The Driver’s Station is not part of the Withholding Allowance…
I think it was the question phrasing that causes some confusion here.
If you have a COTS computing device, the term is only used in reference to an on-board robot COTS computing device.
That puts the question into the “can I work on my robot outside of the bag” department.
And the answer to that is, only up to 30 lbs worth.
I’ll stipulate that the question probably was asked about placing a device on the robot. However neither the question nor the answer makes this clarification.
Regarding tickspe15, I have read the manual, many times. Again I’ll point out that the question and the answer makes no reference as to whether the COTS device is part of the robot or the control system.
I believe that this rule would not apply to the driver station computer since it’s not part of the robot. However, the RoboRIO is part of it. FIRST has just set back teams $400 every year. Also, if any of you guys liked those Talon SRX motor controllers, you have to buy new ones of those every year. And changing brake/coast on a not overpriced motor controller means that those are fabricated items as well.
There is a rule (R13D) that may protect these, but it appears to mostly apply to adding connectors. (Are these complicated systems an electrical device? They use electricity, but cross the line into “electronic”)
ROBOT
an electromechanical assembly built by the FIRST® Robotics Competition
Team to perform specific tasks when competing in FIRST®
STEAMWORKSSM. The ROBOT must include all of the basic systems required
to be an active participant in the game – power, communications, control,
BUMPERS, and movement. The ROBOT implementation must obviously follow
a design approach intended to play FIRST STEAMWORKS
No, the driver station is not part of the ROBOT, and R13 applies only to physical ROBOT elements, specifically excluing the driver station.
No, the driver station is not part of the ROBOT, and the withholding allowance (R21) only covers items “to be used to repair and/or upgrade their ROBOT.”
No, the driver station is not part of the ROBOT. R10 specifies the total cost of the ROBOT, while R11 and R12 imply that it’s the ROBOT only (although these could be made clearer).
Probably every team, because the driver station is not part of the ROBOT.
The driver station is not part of the ROBOT, so you don’t have to worry about changing it.
No, because the driver station is not part of the ROBOT.
Anyone else see a pattern here?
In many cases, like with the RoboRIO or motor controllers, you can easily take them back to a COTS state after modifying them. You just have to return them to the state they were in when you received them. When you upload new software or firmware to them, you’re essentially doing just that. You are removing the part that changed it and adding a new part that changed it.
That said… Really? You’re going to nitpick on this in order to cost your team money and hassle? Has anyone EVER had an inspector ask them if they modified software or code on their roboRIO or speed controller prior to the season? Has anyone EVER had an inspector hassle them on installed software on a roboRIO that they carried in outside of their bag?
Well, I guess I’ll chime in as the person that asked this question.
My intent when asking was focused towards co-processors like used for robot vision, but this apparently has other implications around other control system components. I asked mainly because when we bagged we didn’t bag our co-processor so we could use it on our second robot. However, since we installed Ubuntu and all our vision stuff we wanted to know if it was part of witholding.
I was more pointing out that this clarification does technically make this the situation. As you said, inspectors won’t call people out on it and it’s totally unenforceable. (since there’s no physical change made to the item, part of the reason that calling them “fabricated” items doesn’t work in the first place) I also fully expect them to change this next year, potentially expanding R13D to all control system components, since basically no team is going to actually keep buying these parts.
Technically you can do all you want with it and then reimage it before you bring it to competition, and then reinstall everything after if you don’t have the weight for it.
