Are we allowed to use a laser on the field prior to the match to align for auto then remove it before the match starts? I know FIRST is picky with lasers but couldn’t find a concrete answer on this one.
Thanks,
Nathan, Team 599
G02. Be prompt/safe when coming to and going from the FIELD. DRIVE TEAMS may not cause significant or repeated delays to the start of a MATCH and/or to the FIELD reset at the conclusion of the MATCH.
Violation: If prior to the MATCH, the offending DRIVE TEAM’S ROBOT will be DISABLED. If after the MATCH, YELLOW CARD.
DRIVE TEAMS are expected to stage their ROBOTS for a MATCH, and remove it from the FIELD afterwards, safely and swiftly. Examples include, but are not limited to:
E. late arrival to the FIELD
F. failing to exit the FIELD once the LED strings have turned off (indicating MATCH ready)
G. installing BUMPERs, charging pneumatic systems, or any other ROBOT maintenance, once on the FIELD
H. use of alignment devices that are external to the ROBOT
I. failing to remove OPERATING CONSOLES from the PLAYER STATIONS in a timely manner
J. convoluted installation and removal of TEAM supplied ROPE
Per the blue box quoted above, alignment devices external to the robot are not allowed.
You can put a Class 1 laser on the Robot. Power it from the Robot, and use a manual on/off switch.
You can use a ranged retro reflective sensor aimed at the tape on gear lift or boiler (think sensor to prevent your garage door from closing on something). Most of these sensors have a visual indicator on them that will change colors if they read 1 or 0. Even if you never use it in code, this is legal.
Anyone know if you can use your camera feed once you have comms? Have your driver give you a thumbs up? This may take too long and I’m not sure if it’s feasible.
Once dash board connects to FMS you will have the video feed. The problem is many a times by the team it connects, you will not have time to align. You cannot rely on that.
The OP original laser question may be answered from the rule book under R07-D and it must stay with the robot.
**IF **the laser was part of the robot. As the question was stated, however, the laser would not have been part of the robot, it would have been an off-robot measurement device… How do you apply R07 to something that isn’t actually part of the robot?
Are we sure that’s what the rule means? I read G02 as “don’t take too long to place your robot”. The bullet list shows examples of ways that could cause you to take too long. I’m picturing a team bringing in jigs and alignment devices and measuring tapes and taking far too long to set it all up and place the robot “just so”. In my interpretation there’s no issue with using a tool if it’s done quickly.
I think that this will be an important question to ask the head ref at the drive team meeting. I imagine that it will be fine as long as it does not cause undue delay to the match.
Not a head ref, but please do not attempt to ascribe intent to the rules. They mean what they say, nothing more, nothing less. I’d have a problem with external alignment devices, delay or not.
From page 10 of section 1:
Warnings, cautions and notes appear in blue boxes. Pay close attention to their contents as they’re intended to provide insight into the reasoning behind a rule, helpful information on understanding or interpreting a rule, and/or possible “best practices” for use when implementing systems affected by a rule.
So you’re providing an interpretation of the intent of a rule, while the blue box explicitly provides different insight.
I’m not a ref, this isn’t my call to make on the field. But as a mentor, I would not set my team up with a plan to use an external alignment device when that is explicitly called out in the blue box without any caveats around it.
The rule G02 says “Be prompt/safe when coming to and going from the FIELD.”
The blue box says “DRIVE TEAMS are expected to stage their ROBOTS for a MATCH, and remove it from the FIELD afterwards, safely and swiftly”.
The blue box then calls out examples of things that could cause undue delays, one of which is “the use of alignment devices”.
So the rule says: “if the use of alignment devices causes you to be not safe or not swift in setting up your robot, then DISABLED/YELLOW CARD.”
To me this implies that alignment devices are “not permitted at all”, but the rule does not explicitly say this. What if we are able to use an alignment device “safely and swiftly”?
Someone else just said, “The intent of this manual is that the text means exactly, and only, what it says.”
I would argue the same. The rule does not say it’s not permitted. It says “be prompt/safe” and “stage your robot safely and swiftly.”
That said, of course I would get clarification before setting up an expectation that we would be allowed to use an alignment device such as a laser or measuring tape.
You could argue that. But, you wouldn’t have too much of an argument and you’d spend more time arguing that than you would simply mounting the device to the robot.
G02. Here’s the rule.
Examples include, but are not limited to: (here are examples of violations. We reserve the right to call other things violations)
H. use of alignment devices that are external to the ROBOT
(here is where we specifically state we see this as a violation of the rule)
The rule, pretty bluntly, says it isn’t permitted. Otherwise, what value would the examples have? If they’re “these might be violations, they might not, who really knows?” they serve little, if any, purpose.
Any argument you’d make would require the referee to imply intent contradicting the text as it was written. Planning on this happening isn’t a good choice. You’re better off not attempting the argument and finding an easy way to make your alignment tool a part of the robot (which isn’t explicitly stated as being a violation but could still be viewed as one).