Question: Championship Divisions

[AdamHeard]

California has more regionals than MI did (4), but all the teams are concentrated in 4 places (2 for all you folks who don’t know CA geography very well–they’re farther apart than you think): Los Angeles, San Diego, the Silicon Valley, and Sacramento. There are pockets in other areas, namely the central coast, home to 973 and 1388, and the desert areas. (Not sure if 399 goes with the L.A. grouping or the desert grouping…)

However, the teams already play each other almost exclusively. L.A. doesn’t get many out-of-state teams (other than 188, 1726, and 69–the only repeat out-of-state teams I know about in recent years), but is always full. SVR and Sacramento are more of the same. SD gets more, but not very many. To put it frankly, you’d pretty much be doing the same thing as normal.

The question is, where are you going to put the districts? If you split each regional into two, you get 8 district events in 4 areas. And then you get the MI UP dillemma: Do you leave the district zone and go to Vegas (or Oregon, or AZ), or do you travel to your closest district event (which requires staying overnight)?

The only way to make the district system work in California would be to also include Nevada and Arizona. This is to avoid the MI UP dilemma (as now Vegas is in the district area, and AZ, which supplies many teams to Vegas, is as well) and give a bit of a “buffer zone”. But now you need more districts, maybe about 10-12, and that increases costs. And where on earth do you hold the “Zone” championship? How about the number of qualifying teams?

Con #1, though, is the district system is still “buggy” in some respects. The point system is the notable one, though that seems to be working (mostly). But, before the district model goes nationwide, I for one would like to see the pilot program run for one more year with changes to verify that any bugs are out.

It may be that the district model only works in MI, but certain aspects like event format can work elsewhere. I’d like to see the parts that work implemented nationwide, but the parts that don’t work removed.

Yup, 1717, 1388 and us are all central coast (Santa Barbara through San Luis Obispo approximately). If district events were made, we’d have to stay overnight anywhere it’d make sense to have one. If they made one at the central coast, if it was near 1717 we’d have to stay overnight, and vice-verca. Not to mention all other teams attending would have to stay overnight.

The only Pro I see for the district event (to my specific team, not evaluating the program as a whole) is going into champs with WAAAAAAAAAY more matches than everyone else.

[Jon_Jack]

IF the district system did go nationwide, it would probably look very different than it does now. For example, what about smaller states like Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Alaska, Montana? You can’t run a district system in a state with 3 teams, can you?

I would imagine larger states like CA, MI, TX, etc would become their own district systems and then large groups of smaller states like the ones listed above will become their own.

The western region would probably look something like:

• CA
• Pacific Northwest (WA, OR, ID, MT, AK)
• Southwest (NV, AZ, NM, CO, UT)

Each group would have their own district systems until the need for district realignment came up.

[Lil_Lavery]

What are the con’s for adopting the Michican district model?

No full practice day at venues.
Events with an “off-season” feel (though team spirit of a regional).
A complete restructuring of the infrastructure.
More volunteers needed.
Not a viable option in most states/regions.

[Josh_Goodman]

I’m glad that before even the regionals end…1114, 217 and 148 are in the same division they were last year…It’s always a comforting thought. :yikes:

[Fe_Will]

IF the district system did go nationwide, it would probably look very different than it does now. For example, what about smaller states like Washington, Oregon, Idaho, Alaska, Montana? You can’t run a district system in a state with 3 teams, can you?

Last time I checked there were more than 3 teams in several of the states listed. Does the rest of FRC not see what we do up here? Sometimes I wonder…

[Jon_Jack]

Last time I checked there were more than 3 teams in several of the states listed. Does the rest of FRC not see what we do up here? Sometimes I wonder…

Obviously Oregon has more than 3 teams. I think you guys have one of the biggest growth rates in FIRST since the 2006 season. I wasn’t trying to say that Oregon only had 3 teams. However, the 28 teams in Oregon are not enough to do a district structure. I suppose you could do a very small state championship, but most likely I could see places like Oregon (28 teams), Washington (49 teams), Montana (4 teams), Idaho (9 teams), Alaska (3 teams) and the Dakotas (5 teams) being lumped together into one district system.

IF districting went nationwide, FIRST isn’t going to leave the smaller states like MT, ID, AK, ND and SD out in the cold. This means that at least in the beginning they will be lumped with other states.

However, I think this thread should be returned to it’s original topic.

[Akash_Rastogi]

However, I think this thread should be returned to it’s original topic.

Thank you!

Usually, are the TBA algorithms correct? And which algorithm is used ecah year? Normal or serpentine?

[thefro526]

Thank you!

Usually, are the TBA algorithms correct? And which algorithm is used ecah year? Normal or serpentine?

I think they alternate. Some years Serpentine is used and some years the normal one is used. As to what one will be used, your guess is as good mine.

[Jon_Jack]

If I remember correctly, the last few years have been A,B,C,D,A,B…

However TBA has it set up, it’s still pretty far from being settled. There are still 12 teams from the MSC that have yet to receive invites, as well as 12 teams from the two MN regionals this weekend. I imagine there are also several teams that will get their payment in at the last minute and be added to the list.

[Travis_Hoffman]

I still wouldn’t mind seeing an AAAA, BBBB, CCCC, DDDD … arrangement.

[Lil_Lavery]

If I remember correctly, the last few years have been A,B,C,D,A,B…

However TBA has it set up, it’s still pretty far from being settled. There are still 12 teams from the MSC that have yet to receive invites, as well as 12 teams from the two MN regionals this weekend. I imagine there are also several teams that will get their payment in at the last minute and be added to the list.

It was ABCD in 2008, but not in 2007. 2007 used a different formula.
http://www.thebluealliance.net/cd/divisionparse.php

[waialua359]

Too bad there are more regionals. :mad:
Having 25, 368, 987, and 1983 in the same division would be AWESOME!!!

[Peter_Matteson]

I like the normal algorithem. It puts us in Curie for a shot at completing the set…

[The_Lucas]

I think they alternate. Some years Serpentine is used and some years the normal one is used. As to what one will be used, your guess is as good mine.

It was ABCD in 2008, but not in 2007. 2007 used a different formula.
http://www.thebluealliance.net/cd/divisionparse.php

They have never used serpentine for all of the teams. However some say that odd pattern in 2007 was inspired by serpentine pattern.

I am now wondering how many teams will be at CMP this year. There are currently 320 teams registered and 30 more can qualify tomorrow. Hopefully the field will run smoothly for all these matches

[chanj]

I thought what happened was that they had posted out the list, but as more teams joined, they just threw them on to the back of the divisions.

[Cory]

I thought what happened was that they had posted out the list, but as more teams joined, they just threw them on to the back of the divisions.

Nope. To the best of my knowledge it’s never happened that way before.

[Aren_Hill]

I’m glad that before even the regionals end…1114, 217 and 148 are in the same division

i’m gonna put it out there that that alliance will not happen this year at champs, none of those 3 are falling to a 3rd bot

[Josh_Goodman]

i’m gonna put it out there that that alliance will not happen this year at champs, none of those 3 are falling to a 3rd bot

Oh yeah…I’d be willing to bet that too. But you never know

[The_Lucas]

I thought what happened was that they had posted out the list, but as more teams joined, they just threw them on to the back of the divisions.

They do that for a very limited number of teams (like 348 and 1771 last year) that join after the list is out. The list in 2007was very different (out of order) when it was first posted.

[Greg_Peshek]

When’s the latest time for the teams who just qualified to register? Do they have to do it at the event, or is there a certain window?

If they have to do it at the event, does that mean the list on TBA is pretty accurate? Assuming FIRST uses that algorithm of course.