Hi everyone!
I know, I am guilty of missing a week again due to livin la vida loca. Here is this weeks question suggested by Barry from team 1390 (Bonzack1390).
Question of the Week (8/16/04):
Other than the team that you are currently on, Would you rather be on a veteran team with many years of experience, or a rookie team starting from scratch?
As always, yada yada yada, [email protected], QuietRiverRage1 on AIM, or just a PM to suggest questions! Have a great week!
-Andy Grady
Although both have thier advantages, being on a veteran teamis what i would want. Mostly because veteran teams know what they are doing and what does and doesn’t work. As long as the teams are open to new ideas and trying new things, i would prefer a veteran team.
personally, i liked being on a rookie team last year. no-one really had any expectations of us, so when we won, our regional, it was especially sweet. on the flip-side, i probably wouldn’t pass up the chance to join a big name team like truck town terror, or techno ticks.
Well, I have been on MOE the past 3 years, and being on a big, experienced veteran team certainly has its benefits, but there are also drawbacks. After having the experience of that, I would like to try a small rookie or inexperienced team, simply because on a new team, there is more flexibility to try something risky, or just run with a new idea. There isnt that “we’ve done this and it’s worked in the past” mentality that many established teams.
To be honest, I kinda liked being a rookie this year.
We didn’t have much of a clue what we were up against, so we did our thing. And that drivetrain is bombproof for it.
Probably a rookie because an expierienced team would tell me to hush up and take a back seat.
[edit]That has to do with the kind of person I am. I don’t like to sit and watch when I could be doing something. Actually, it drives me batty.[/edit]
[offtopic]Livin’ La Vida Loca is awesome! We’re doing it for our half-time show this year![/offtopic]
This segues into my answer nicely:
I’d love to spend some time on a really well established team, with some strong engineers and mentors.
I want to learn.
It’d be great to hop onto a team like the Technokats or Team Hammond and just… watch. I’d be content doing nothing but making parts.
Think how much you could learn watching Andy and Mark work on their newest tranny design…
I’ve got a lot of mentoring role models in my life, but it’d be great to spend some “up close” time with some of them.
Once I’ve learned “enough” then I’d consider striking off on my own and found my own team.
$.02
JV
(who would love to take a backseat)
A rookie team. There’s just something about pioneering your way, laying down the threads with which the team will flourish, rather than having a current system spoon fed to you.
I’d like to be on a team with little money, little experience, few resources, but some determined, hard-working students and a devoted teacher. Any out there in Jersey?
Veteran teams might have a lot of people who are experienced but each year they have a lot of newbies on the team who are not experienced. veterans on the team trains the rookies to have the capability of running the team once the veterans are graduated…
with rookie teams there are some people in the team who has atleast a little bit of experience. and everyone in the team learns from there…
i really dont have preferences of being on a veteran team or a rookie team since both will give me a great experience of team work. both will have a great experience for me… 
Most of my reasons have been stated already, but I’d prefer a rookie team. That way I think I’d be able to have more of an impact on the team and the direction of the team (no offense to any big teams out there) This way both myself and my team get to learn better from all of our mistakes, not those of our predecessors, sometimes you just have to learn on your own. Also, this allows us to set our own standards and precedent, not just living up to the standards of previous years from our team.
I don’t know about Jersey, but you just described my team perfectly.
I feel that this question is slightly limited in the definition of veteran team. There is a huge difference between powerhouse vets and the rest of the veterans. I feel that every team has the potential to be a powerhouse, hence why these teams can be labeled “fixer uppers”…with the right team mindset, energy to acquire enough resources, and a little luck, any team can become stronger.
Don’t underestimate the fixer-upper…that experience can be just as gratifying as sitting in with a powerhouse.
I will lean toward a veteran team. Being a veteran means the “framework” for a team should already be in place so you can concentrate more on designing and constructing a robot instead of a team. I will also venture to say that veterans generally have more and/or better resources available to them. Wether that is shop facilities, funds, volunteers, sponsors or just plain knowledge.
I’d rather be on a rookie team. Usually its their first years that are their glory days and they fair quite well. I was involved with a rookie LEGO league team before my real robotics days that ALMOST made it to states and got a quality research award. As for a rookie team that I wish I was on, 1241 would be that choice. They almost took home GLR, and they would have if some team didn’t plop a big ball in their net (no offense) 
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Okay A few things…
First of I have to disagree with Jess’ post about “powerhouse vets” what the heck is that?? I suppose Beaty is a “powerhouse vet” because they’ve won like 17 championships, a chairman’s, etc. That being said there are teams who (despite all odds and the best attempts to prevent it) are consistent. The question then is what makes them consistent (I have some of my own ideas but…getting flamed is so yesterday)…Andy are you listening that’s next weeks question okay!! However I have certainly seen PLENTY of matches where so called “powerhouse teams” have been given a very serious beating by rookie teams, which in my view is the great part about FIRST. In other sports if you train hard you can become extremely good at what you do eventually…practice makes perfect. Why is this? Because the game stays the same…mixing it up each year helps to keep everyone on a level playing field (usually). In basketball if you are talented you’re going to do very well at playing the game. In FIRST there is virtually NO guarantee from one year to the next that you will be a “powerhouse” or will even win a single competition. So how relevant is that label anyways?
Secondly, I think that being a veteran on each type of team has its own serious pitfalls. I think being a veteran on a different veteran team is probably the hardest. I’ve toyed from time to time with trying to join a veteran team that wasn’t my original HS team and I think this is very very hard because each team in FIRST has its own culture, its own inside jokes, that you have to break through. On the other than being on a rookie time presents its own challenges in that you have to balance your know how with the kids ideas and resist the temptation to always be spouting “well in past years.” But you don’t have to break through that culture, etc. because it is in the process of being created. Ultimately I just haven’t found a team that I’ve really clicked with since the demise of my original team and perhaps I never will.
Those are my thoughts…lengthy as they are,
Justin
My choice would be to start a rookie team, and develop it into a veteran team. First off, rookie teams are more friendly to younger students, because seniors, juniors, sophomores, and freshman alike start off on a level playing field. On a veteran team, returning members usually have a job established, which narrows opportunities for new members. Also, going through a rookie year of first together creates a bond between members that cannot be broken. Everyone remembers the same competition as “their first FIRST competition.” Remembering the first years, where money was tight and experience was low, would bring joy years later when your team is a chairmans award winner or (insert distinction here). That’s all for me.
Exactly!
I have never had the opportunity to work with a veteran team and really learn the ins and outs of setting up a team. I was on team 229 for 2 years. It was the teams 2nd and 3rd years of existence and still figuring out what does/does not work for the team.
From there I started team 891 here in Syracuse. It has been really difficult because nobody on the team really has any experience. Plus we have no mechanical engineers, only electrical 
So not only are we trying to figure out how to organize the team, recruit, fundraise, etc. we also have no idea what works/doesn’t work robot wise.
Fortunately the Liverpool team has been helpful to us, plus I have a friend from Aces High that is starting a team in Rochester so I plan on pumping her for ideas! And lurking around on CD really helps too 
I would jump at the chance to observe one of these well established veteran teams to learn how to organize the team, what to do to train students in the fall, and all the little things that end up biting us at the end of the six weeks. Then I would go off and use that knowledge to start a new team.
Kristin
When I joined my team they were in their first year, I joined at the end of thier first season so i basicly started on their second year, it was good to have a team that was somewhat established, although they weren’t a " veteren " team it was alot of fun, because you were able to explore possibilites that a vetern team wouldn’t do. I though it was great learning from our mistakes, i think that makes a good vetern team in the future.
I’d prefer being on a rookie team for plenty of reasons. But, seeing that most of them have been mentioned, I’ll keep this concise.
Although rookie teams have hardly been around, it is likely that many very different ideas will come from them - even if the ideas aren’t as developed because of less experience. Veteran teams will have creative ideas, too, but might be more likely to base a design on what worked well in the past for them.
I would agree with John. I’d love to join an established veteran team, just to learn. I’m not all that comfortable taking a lead role, and I’d love to be able to work with some of the best minds and greatest people in FIRST. While I would probably enjoy starting my own team, the experience of being with a veteran team would be priceless.
The reason why I stated that I feel the definition should be split is because of these two comments. I feel that although every team evaluates what it does and decides whether certain areas need fixing, there are some teams that don’t want to change the way things are going because they’re working.
The question stated simply “be on a team”. Certain teams will fit better for different people. If you’re looking to take an active role in helping a team, then you can still choose a veteran team - you just have to find one that’s ready to make big changes. And there are many out there!
Since the only quantifable way to explain this is through awards (although by no means the only way to measure FIRST success), pulling from Dr Joe’s wonderous spreadsheet of teams and Rich Wong’s statistics, 375 separate teams walked away with 647 possible awards this year, out of 929 registered teams…an average number of awards for each of the teams who recieved any award of 2.42. Those numbers alone show that there’s much room for diversification in award recieving teams - hence there are teams out there who may be looking to make major changes. For some people it’s more satisfying that way when success finally comes - because the team has waited so long for it.
Other teams are less likely to change their ways (the “if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it” theory) - they’ve found what works for them. There are other people out there who are best fit for these teams, such as, but not limited to, people who just want to watch. That doesn’t mean that the newcomer can’t suggest something, but someone who is looking to take an active role right away on an older team may not be as satisfied here.
There are teams out there that are seriously looking for the help, and there are teams that are not as seriously looking. But because of the different needs of individuals as well as teams, veterans shouldn’t be all clumped together just because they all have at least one year underneath their belts.