Posted by Andy Grady. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Other on team in limbo from in limbo sponsored by in limbo.
Posted on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST
Hi all, here is the question of the week…
Question 8/6/00: Since the forming of alliances, teams have been shopping around their robots by using pamphlets, signs, websites, etc… Do you think that these methods actually help a teams chances in getting picked?
Personally I never would rely on what people have told me when it comes to picking a robot. I would go from what I have seen, and what I know would be a good match for my teams robot. Not that its a bad thing to try to shop around your robot, but its also extreemly difficult to deal with them when you have much work to do in the pit.
Cya,
Andy Grady
Posted by Lora Knepper.
Student on team in limbo from in limbo sponsored by in limbo.
Posted on 8/6/2000 9:11 AM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
Well, I think I partialy agree with you Andy. I think that I trust more what I have seen a machine DO rather than just what someone tells me it CAN. But at the same time, I think that selling yourself with fliers etc. can be helpful for a team that would ordinarily get overlooked.
Also, having a sheet with your specs handy is great to give out to teams knowing that they will be picking, and are considering you as an ally. This way, they have a quick sheet to refer to, as well as what the scouts have found out and observed.
Lora
Posted by Michael Martus. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Coach on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central H.S. and Delphi Automotives Systems.
Posted on 8/6/2000 9:48 AM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
Having a team ( students ) go around and tell how great their robot is and try to convince other teams to pick them is great.
This all part of growth of a young person. Being able to network with others and sell yourself is a fact of life. Getting practice here in a real situation is very useful to’ bring out ’ the shy student.
Yes, it is true that some of what you are told is a little exagerated but hey, the students are proud of their work and deserve a time to show it off.
The real proof of a robot is what it is able to do in action. Thats why we scout teams. A little push to look at a team we might have overlooked could prove to be a game winner.
Posted by colleen. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Coach on team #246, Blue Light Special, from John D. O’Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.
Posted on 8/6/2000 11:25 AM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
i have to see andy’s POV on this one… when you’re trying to get work done in the pits, etc… having people coming up to you, trying to give you stuff, talk to you, etc while you’re trying to work isn’t cool… in ‘99 when we were regional winners and #2 seed at the nationals, we had the most hectic time just trying to sit in our pits and relax between matches… people kept coming up, trying to get us to go to their pits and watch their robots and listen to their specs starting Friday afternoon… there was never a minute to really relax, talk to the strategy team about matches and stuff because of soooo many people… we were trying to focus on the matches at hand and stay in the top 16… and like most teams, had a dedicated few people to really check out the robots and come up with some ‘finalists’ for choices that they brought to the rest of the team… i definitely wasnt’ favoring the spaming
this year i was on a team who wasn’t really pursued… people came and asked, we told… we talked the people in matches and in cues with us about our abilities… but we never went to other people’s pits for the purpose of selling ourselves… we made a few ‘signs’ we carried around, more in jest than anything… but telling facts… and we did what andy likes… we concentrated on showing what we could do on the field… we played strong defense and showed what we had that way… and saturday morning we tethered out robot outside and drove it around for anyone who wanted to watch (and amazed ourselves by pushing/pulling over 1000lbs)… we understood that it’s hard to be badgered, especially when you’re trying to fix your 'bot for the next match… and we didn’t do it…
maybe some people enjoy it… and i think teams making a ‘sheet’ with their specs to hand out to others is cool… but i also think with the cool strategical developments by the GM people and S.o.a.p… even that is unnecessary… teams learning by watching, competing with, strategizing, etc… and if they want to know something, will go ask… i think all the extra is just that… extra… and unnecessary…
Posted by Nate Smith.
Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.
Posted on 8/6/2000 1:35 PM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
: Personally I never would rely on what people have told me when it comes to picking a robot. I would go from what I have seen, and what I know would be a good match for my teams robot. Not that its a bad thing to try to shop around your robot, but its also extreemly difficult to deal with them when you have much work to do in the pit.
Somewhere else in these forums, some people commented on the expected growth over the next few years…with more and more teams at the competitions(especially nationals), it’s my opinion that the teams that individually perform well, but are lower in the rankings due to poor alliances, are those that need to do some form of advertising. For the powerhouse teams that have a regional win or two under their belts the current season, everybody pretty much knows who they are already, so they don’t really need to go around and hand out information that tells everybody what they already know…however, for a lower ranked team that has performed well individually(for example, winning a match with a broken ally), just passing that information along early enough(the end of qualifying is too late) to a team that is in a position to select an ally for the elimination matches may cause the higher ranked team to take a closer look at the other team, and possibly find a good ally in the process that they may have otherwise overlooked.
Nate
Posted by Erin.
Student on team #1, The Juggernauts, from Oakland Technical Center-Northeast Campus and 3-Dimensional Services.
Posted on 8/6/2000 5:59 PM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
Making signs that say ‘will strip for alliance’ haven’t worked, so what else could we blame it on? You see alot of teams picking the teams they know because those teams marketed to them. I just have to say one thing, when you have most of the judges come to your pit in one day and you have hopes of getting the Chairman’s award (and also have a small team and aren’t in the top 16) it makes marketing your team to others very hard. Those who criticize the Chairman’s Award and Finalist Award recipients have no idea how much we sacrifice for that. My two cents.
-Erin
Posted by David Kelso. [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]
Coach on team #131, C.H.A.O.S.-, from Central High School and OSRAM SYLVANIA/ Fleet Bank.
Posted on 8/6/2000 7:32 PM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
The question was ‘do you think it helps to use signs, web sites etc. in order to get picked?’ It sure does… More and more robots are going to be built for defense in the finals. That means that their seed number is likely to be low in the qualification rounds(we were less than 100th seed). That was our approach in 2000. We may have won the N.E. Regional, but we knew that we would not be a high seed in Florida.
So, we put stuff on the Delphi Site, made up flyers and delegated a few team members to ‘sell CHAOS’ to the right team. And it has to be the right team. You have to let others know how you can help THEM in the finals…thanks for picking us Team 126 Clinton/Nypro
Posted by Tom.
Other on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton High School and NYPRO.
Posted on 8/7/2000 11:42 AM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
Hi Andy,
In my experience doing strategy over the past six and a half years, you know who the teams to beat are and hopefully had to beat them. Now that alliances have come into play it is fun to try to find that perfect match for your team. Whenever I am looking for a partner it doesn't matter what rank they are or how much they lobby to be pick... It simply comes down to who would be the best match for our team and gives us the best chance to win... That is why we picked team 131 (Chaos), not because they lobbyed for our pick, but we felt they gave us the best chance to win despite there low ranking. For my picks lobbying has little to no effect on picking someone. Just a thought!!!
Tom
No thanks needed Dave…You guys were awesome
: Hi all, here is the question of the week…
: Question 8/6/00: Since the forming of alliances, teams have been shopping around their robots by using pamphlets, signs, websites, etc… Do you think that these methods actually help a teams chances in getting picked?
: Personally I never would rely on what people have told me when it comes to picking a robot. I would go from what I have seen, and what I know would be a good match for my teams robot. Not that its a bad thing to try to shop around your robot, but its also extreemly difficult to deal with them when you have much work to do in the pit.
: Cya,
: Andy Grady
Posted by Splash.
Student on team #53, Team Inferno, from Eleanor Roosevelt High School and NASA GSFC.
Posted on 8/7/2000 2:33 PM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
: Question 8/6/00: Since the forming of alliances, teams have been shopping around their robots by using pamphlets, signs, websites, etc… Do you think that these methods actually help a teams chances in getting picked?
I doubt it. One team made an impression on us, the RoboDawgs. We actually went and looked at their robot. Most teams pamphlets went on top of the cabinet though. But I don’t think that the pamphlets do much good. They may remind some people about a robot they know is good but forgot about. I think people should pass them out in the stands if they want to be more effective. Having the specs as the robot performs in front of you might give you insight to why to robot is at its level.
I know our team’s flier was a stretch. It said what we could do, carry 4 balls, etc., but it didn’t say anything about our low speed/low power.
No one will base their pick solely on a pamphlet. But they might look at a team with an impressive flier.
Posted by Andy Baker.
Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.
Posted on 8/8/2000 3:40 PM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
: Question 8/6/00: Since the forming of alliances, teams have been shopping around their robots by using pamphlets, signs, websites, etc… Do you think that these methods actually help a teams chances in getting picked?
To give an answer to your question… maybe. The chance of a picking team giving a well-marketed team a look justifies this process of teams selling themselves.
But, that’s not all. This is great for other things also:
- If a team ‘sells itself’, then judges might get sold also, and awards could be had.
- This is great practice for business… at least the marketing side of things. Just like a good company, a FIRST team needs a good marketing plan.
- This is good practice for the communication of designs even within companies. Whether your working on a patent, or a simple solution to a problem, you still need to present your idea in a way that ‘markets’ it to others… you still gotta sell it. Sure, the design should stand up for itself, but people are too busy to simply come over to your desk and say ‘Hey, Andy, what are you working on?’ You gotta toot your own horn to get things noticed.
- The marketing side of things gives students more to do and another chance to be creative. Last year, we had one student in charge of Marketing. He led a team of people that were intent on selling our team to others. This marketing team had to be honest and tactful with how they presented themselves to others… and they did a good job.
- This is fun… at least I think so. I enjoy seeing what other teams come up with to market their team.
Sure, listening to other teams market themselves to you (if your team is highly ranked) takes some time, but it is better than being in the position of trying to get picked. We’ve been on both sides, and being the highly ranked team is much better.
Andy B.
Posted by Jason Morrella.
Coach on team #254, Cheesy Poofs, from Second Start and NASA Ames/Cypress Semiconductor.
Posted on 8/10/2000 5:48 PM MST
In Reply to: Yes, and it’s not just for getting picked posted by Andy Baker on 8/8/2000 3:40 PM MST:
I think Andy points out something very important.
I do agree with those who say marketing your team does very little good in getting picked. The only material which most teams I know paid any attention to, including ours, were flyers which documented a teams performance (place & awards) at a previous regional. If a team had made the finals - we would go out of our way to go watch them. Other than that, we didn’t rely on pamphlets which pitched what a robot could do (big difference between what it was designed to do in theory and what it actually does after creation). We rely mainly on what we see robots do in actual matches when it comes to choosing allies (when we are lucky enough to get that opportunity)
However, I still believe in marketing and encourage our team to do it for the very reasons Andy points out(Judge awareness, business skills, communication skills, getting to know other teams, fun, etc.). After all, FIRST is about the real life experience students gain for their future - and all the skills which fall under marketing are valuable in almost any profession a student ends up in. For that reason, not for getting picked, I have am all for teams finding creative and ambitious ways to market themselves.
Jason M.
Posted by Rachel.
Student on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton HS and Nypro.
Posted on 8/9/2000 12:15 PM MST
In Reply to: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Andy Grady on 8/6/2000 9:04 AM MST:
: Hi all, here is the question of the week…
: Question 8/6/00: Since the forming of alliances, teams have been shopping around their robots by using pamphlets, signs, websites, etc… Do you think that these methods actually help a teams chances in getting picked?
someone may have already said this, i ddidnt read them all but…
i think i and other people on my team that worked on strategy with me kind of immediately assumed that if the teams were stalking you with pamphlets they weren’t exactly gonna be your first choice, which may have been an unfair asumption in some cases but i think trying to sell their robots in the ways that most teams chose to back fired… if we ever slipped out of the top 8 or 16, we trusted that other teams would remember our ability, and if we even approached another team it would be because like tom siad they would be a good match for us and we wanted to make sure they realized this.
if the teams are good enough to be in a picking position, chances are they watch other teams well enough to know your abilities already, good or bad…and as my dear colleen mentioned- if you have nothing else to do during the time that the top seeds are trying to figure out who they want, its not polite to take away their time talking adn talking and talking, but theres no real harm in handing people pamphlets if thats what you want to spend your time doing.
Posted by Mike.
Student on team #126, Gael Force, from Clinton High School and NYPRO.
Posted on 8/16/2000 9:43 PM MST
In Reply to: Re: QUESTION OF THE WEEK!!! posted by Rachel on 8/9/2000 12:15 PM MST:
I agree Rach and next year I wanna be strategy leader:p
j/k