I was talking to a few teams and this year the 2 mins just do not seem long enough. Maybe it is because of all the tasks there are this year but this game i think need to be played in 2:30 rounds.
shaun team 25
i don;t think that first should make this 2:30 but i think that more teams need to focus on 1 task and do it everytime other then trying a little of this and a little of that…i would hate to be a driver this year because of that fact
I feel 2 minutes are way too less. We definately need some more time. The game might be much more intresting that way in my eyes.
I highly highly doubt FIRST is going to change the times of the matches since the season has already started.
I’m sure the 2 minutes will be just fine, you just have to let people and robots get used to the time and to how their robot operates…geeze its only the first day of competitions…
I agree, at our scrimmage 2 minutes was nothing. But I look at it as another challenge that we need to overcome.
I’ll add my two cents and say that if FIRST increases match time they will probably have to add another day onto some of these competitions at some point since more and more teams are competing every year.
maybe you are looking at the game like you should get all the loose balls in the goals, and cap the goals, and then hang on the bar
think of it more as a ‘target rich environment’
you have plenty of options on ways to score points - decide what your bot does best and focus on doing that
we did some analysis in the first days after the kickoff, and it indicates the average score should be around 100 points for the winning team - it will be interesting to see it that turns out to be correct
but if so, if you can get ten or 11 balls in one goal, and cap it - thats 110 points and you should win most of your matches.
will be interesting to watch the games online tomorrow and see how this years game pans out (where the nuggets of gold lie)?
Well. Considering there is a 15 seconds autonomous mode, the real match time is really 1:45. Looking back at 2000, if the game was 1:45 min, it would’ve been a little too short. In my opinion, it should be 15 secs autonomous mode and 2 mins driver time, because I feel that the matches are too short for teams to do things.
With 1:45 min, I can see a robot get a big ball, and go hang, or push small balls into human player chute, and hang. With 2 mins, teams can do 2 of the following: control mobile goal, get big ball and cap, push small balls to human player, or defend the steps. Right now, the match is so short that there aren’t many defense going on. Everyone is trying to finish that 1 task and go hang.
On the other hand, it is going to take a long time to reset a match. Considering it takes 2 mins a match, 1 minutes of counting score, 1.5 mins of taking robot off the bar and clearing the field, 1.5 mins of reseting balls and setting up robots for next match, that is a 6 mins cycle already. Not to mention it won’t be so smooth on the first day. 5 mins is the standard match cycle last year, 7 is what we used at off season when people weren’t trained. I would be really worried to see 7 min match cycle through out the season.
So. Would a little longer match be fun? Maybe. Is it realistic to change the match length? Not really. Could it be something to be brought up at the next team forum? Most definitely.
I like having the 15 seconds autonomous and the 1:45 drive time. It forces teams who want to do a lot to use that autonomous time wisely and really think about what they are going to do during that time. Then the team must be able to determine what to do to win the match in the 1:45 left. It keeps teams on their feet. These 2 minutes aren’t supposed to be a cakewalk. I think FIRST wants us to struggle with getting things done in the 2 minutes. It’s kind of like build season…It’s long enough to get a bot running and a function to work, but if you want to do more, it can be a struggle to get it done.
Eric
one thing i noticed about the BAE one…
they only gave us like 1:20 seconds for practice matches. that was pretty short for all the tasks we had to do…
If they set the time to 2:15, that would run auto. and then have 2 minutes for the drivers to tool w/ their machines…it would increase the day, but probably give teams that extra few precious secconds to hang, score balls, or do whatever it is they do, i think this should be looked into.
ps. w/ my $.02 worth, we’ll have 4 cents!
The 2 minute rounds are part of the challenge. If you work out a strategy before hand, you can get a lot done in 2 minutes. I like the time limit because it really shows who put in the extra time and effort training and strategizing to make the most of their time. Besides, if you think 2:00 min. is bad, think back to the pressure on drive teams in 2000 with the time multipliers. Adding time onto the match won’t solve the time crunch, it will just mean you will be expected to get even more done, and before you know it 2:30 or 3:00 will seem too short.
There is alot to be done this year, and the field starts to look cluttered after awhile. I guess this is part of the challenge, though, and we’ll utilize our robot’s strengths, our partner’s strengths, and our autonomous modes to get everything done that we intend to.
All think 2:00mins is fine I mean check out the videos on www.wildstang.org for 2001 the “710 points”…all in 55 secs? I think people just need to get use to the game.
I think that the 10 minute practice matches that we had pre-2003 were nice, because you could practice doing things over and over, and you could send people out onto the field to reset it and try it again, it was much more laid back. They gave you time to really figure out what was wrong when something happened. It was especially nice for the human players because they could attempt 60 or so shots in 10 minutes instead of 6.
PS: I don’t think they should ever change the regular match time to more than 2:00, if you can’t get it done in 2 min you shouldn’t be trying to do it.
And it is for that exact reason that the game shoudl be 2:00 long. If you had enough time to do everything there was to do, then there would be no strategic decisions to make. But the beauty of this game (and of life) is that you are forced to make trade-offs and decisions in real-time, without complete information, and with too many things going on at once. Those that learn how to do this best, and make the best choices in a suboptimal situation, will come out ahead (just like in life).
At VCU, when the field handling team really got in the groove, the reset time was actually well under 5 minutes per round. We finished the competition 20 minutes ahead of schedule! One of the keys seemed to be having the field attendants start to reset the field and remove the non-scoring balls on the floor of the field while the judges were still counting the balls in the goals - this parallel activity really helped move things along (this hint will probably be passed on to the other regional events).
-dave
Yes. One of the ten principles of economics. Tradeoffs happen because we have scarce resources. In this case it is time. You have to assess your oppurtunity cost and decide what will score you the most points in that time.
If they gave us more time to play the game would completely shift and everyone would try to do everything and it might grow to be chaotic and boring all in one.
If they made it longer, you would expect to do a lot more. People would then complain that time was too short again…and it would keep going on this way until the matches become too long for a weekend competition with 40 teams.