Ramps extending outside of the home zone

Hi,

We have a question,
How does the lenght of the robot counts when it is open (with the ramp) and it is not only in the HomeZone?
it is a little bit outside the HZ…

Thank you,

Team #1690
Big Fishy

your robot is bigger then the 72" box, and touches outside of the home zone just even a fraction of an inch that is a penalty.

This was not the case at the Great Lakes Regional. Teams were only penalized if 72"x72" were outside of the end zone. Teams who were slightly outside the endzone were never penalized.

Can anyone who attended other regionals describe how this rule was enforced?

At both Florida and Chesapeake, I saw flags thrown (or rather waved, now) for teams driving out of the home zone while beyond the 72" mark. If you went visibly beyond the line, in whole or in part, it was a flag.

At the BMR if any team had its ramps down and crossed the HZ plane it got penalized. This happened more often than I would have guessed.

In Pittsburgh, teams were penalized if any part of the offending robot broke the plane of the home zone while exceeding 72" in any direction…

Except for accidental deployments, we had it happen both in St Louis and at Boilermaker and each time the ref didn’t penalize us because we went straight into the home zone and it didn’t affect the match at all.

It’s a different story if you intentionally deploy and come out of the zone.

At LA the rule was if you go outside 72" box outsideof the home zone, if you get to the home zone immediately and quickly or hit the E-stop button in the same fashion, you will not be penalized

In Pittsburgh they nailed teams for accidental deployments outside the home zone, too.

At MWR several teams were penalized if their ramps deployed to a size greater than 72" x 72" outside of the home zone, even by a fraction. They seemed to be watching for this pretty closely. Our single ramp was checked by the officials both during quals and elims for deployed size outside of home, but we did not have a problem.

Sounds like various results to this call. Disapointing to the teams who lost thier chance at winning becuase of the call being more strict in one regional then the others.

In Pittsburgh, our partner was out about 3 inches and we were penalized and also, our robot flipped on its back and about 6 inches of our arm was in the home zone of opponent and we were penalized for being there even after we disabled our robot.

In KC if you crossed the HZ line you were penalized…every time you crossed. If you deployed and then adjusted and went back and forth 3 times ( even by an inch) you were flagged each time. If I saw it correctly.

At UTC, the ruling was if the offending robot was ‘unfolded’ to more than 72 x 72 and any part of the robot “broke the plane” of the home zone, there was a 10 point penalty assesed.

We got called for it once. Our arm was horizontal, and breaking the plane by about 2-3 inches while our ramps were down. At no point was any part of the robot touching outside of the home zone, but broke the plane only.:frowning:

It seems the “outside just a little bit” ruling is in effect at most events. I’d agree this is the best way to call it. There can be no middle ground (since the YMTC discussion about the tube under the unsupporting ramp made that clear). Given the noted discrepancy in ref calls at a few earlier events, I’m guessing/hoping FIRST is adding this to their list of conference call reminders to the head refs this week.

Clear out plenty of room before deploying. The 33, 47, 71, 180 etc. style ramps are most likely having the most difficulties avoiding penalties of this nature. Hybrids watch your arm placement as well.

During the second final match at the Midwest Regional, Wildstang had deployed their ramp and, from what I could see, was penalized because their side shielding had come off of the robot and was lying just barely over the line. That was kind of goofy, but what can you do? It’s all about interpretation.

At the Boilermaker, I must say the refs were some of the best I have ever seen. They were fair and consistent throughout the weekend. Taking the time to warn teams before giving out penalties for all but the most flagrant violations. It seemed as though they gave penalties for ramps that totally deployed outside the HZ and if at the end of the match either your ramp or arm were outside they gave you a penalty then. Having your arm or ramp just outside the HZ while trying to position was not given a penalty as long as you were making an effort to get back in the HZ. A small corner of our ramps went outside the HZ a couple times without penalties. One time we forgot to put our arm down and after resting it on top of the alliance station wall and not taking corrective action fast enough we were penalized and I believe we were also disabled. The refs seemed to want to let the teams play by not calling penalties that did not harm other robots or have a huge affect on the game. A real common sense approach that was very much appreciated. Total deployment of ramps in the middle of the field, penalty every time. A couple inches out while trying to allign the ramps in the HZ during the end game and making sure that at the end you are completely within the HZ, no penalty.

At UTC we had a fragile drive train but a good ramp, so we just sat there and deployed early. In one QF match our ramp wouldn’t deploy (the battery cable was looped over the pushing arm), so we went out to play defense. The first time we got hit our ramps went out, giving us a 10pt penalty, but netting 50pts and the win after we made it back to the HZ and had both partners drive up.

Agreed they did a great job and are an example for all FIRST referees to follow.

We were having some initial problems with one of the servos that release one of our ramps to fall down at Bayou. It seems that there is a short period of time between autonomous and human control when the servos are without power and this would cause one of our releases to disengage. Anyway, in a couple of our early matches (before the problem was diagnosed and fixed) we would take off under driver control and BANG one of our ramps would deploy in the middle of the field leaving us no choice but to return to the home zone and sit and wait out the match ready for an alliance partner to climb up. We were clearly larger than 72”x72” in the middle of the field but there was never a penalty called against us. We were surprised, but then again, there was a lot going on at the Bayou that should have been called but wasn’t. Fortunately, we think our ramp/release problem is now fixed and we should be ready to go in Atlanta!