I’m new to districts and trying to evaluate my teams abilities and what would be best for us to make it as far as possible in a district model. Im posing the question of which would be more important ranking high to be alliance captains or scoring more points to be more appealing as a pick by a more qualified robot. Now I know that these things are not mutually exclusive but I am of the thought that one should be having priority over the other for example building a traversal climb for the RP vs scoring more balls by ourselves knowing we wont get the RP. The team is all new students to FRC and I am trying to budget our time to get as far as possible in the PNW and want some outside input.
I’d say go for a bot that scores more. I don’t remember the points off the top of my head but you’ll end up with more points by ranking mid pack and going far in elims than if you ranked relatively high and didn’t go that far.
Ive been telling the students scream scream scream thats a potential 25 points if we get it at all our events and district champs haha I think we need 175ish to make worlds.
In general, seeding high in districts gives you a nice points floor, as you get points from the seeding as well as your position of alliance captain. That said, I wouldn’t overthink it. Scoring a high volume of game pieces is one way to get the RP as well, and it is still more important to be winning your matches than to get these bonuses. It’s a factor that should be part of your decision, but I would probably give more weight to what is more likely to win matches, and what is more valued on alliances at all levels of play.
Some years, focusing on the ranking points does not necessarily mean that you will do well in Elims. However, this year, it looks to me like any robot that can contribute significantly to earning the ranking points (either by being able to score enough cargo to earn the cargo bonus alone or with little help from your partners, or by climbing to the higher rungs to be the main contributor to the hangar bonus) is going to be pretty valuable as an alliance partner. I recognize that the cargo bonus can be earned with a lot of cargo in the lower hub, but I suspect that a robot that can score a lot of low cargo would still be valuable to an alliance.
I’m not sure about PNW, but in some other districts, scouting is not very consistent and some alliance captains will make selections by looking at who is higher in the final rankings (maybe not as their only data, but as a part of their data set), so ranking higher can get you picked.
Scouting can vary pretty wildly in-district, but typically those who rank high are also doing more than enough to make informed decisions for elims.
Alliance captains are going to want the best scorers who compliment them well. If you want district points, I always think it plays out better to rank as high as possible, mainly to be in control of who my alliance partners are and to have better odds of moving on into semis/finals. PNW isint exactly the deepest district, and being against teams like 2046, 2471, and even yourself in QF’s isint something you want to do.
As an (somewhat extreme) example, 4513 in 2019 had 2 drastically different district events, one where we seeded towards the bottom, was the last pick of the #1 alliance, and won the event, and one where we ranked 7th, got first picked by the 2nd alliance captain, and went to semis. Even though we did worse in elims, that 2nd district event was still worth more district points compared to the win. The obvious goal should be to get as far in elims as possible, but ignoring alliance selection/ranking district points will just as easily cripple a season.
for example building a traversal climb for the RP vs scoring more balls by ourselves knowing we wont get the RP.
Something important to remember, you still need a partner to get that climb RP, which from past experience isint a given.
I highly recommend you check out 1983’s 2016 season and how the bot changed/progressed throughout the season. Regardless of the route you take, iterating and adding new features on as the season goes is one of the best ways to stay competitive come DCMP/CMP, and this year you could very easily get away (at least with how they did shooting, I forget when the climber was added) with the exact same strategy at your events.
I appreciate your input! The team has had somewhat of a hard reset, Andy is no longer a lead and all of our experienced students have left so this season is going to be lots of rebuilding.
I highly recommend you check out 1983’s 2016 season and how the bot changed/progressed throughout the season.
I have looked at this and other robots mainly 148 from 2017 and have had the students do power rankings of things the robot must do by our first comp as well as stretch goals. Being a part of PNW yourself how to you feel the general power level of teams coming in is, can a 8th seed topple the 1st seed granted no catastrophic failures happen?
Also if yall ever find yourselves wanting to use our field to practice we would gladly have you just shoot me a DM! Feels good to be in the PNW
Haha that used to be our golden rule in my first couple years, I believe it actually pushed us barely into a worlds slot in 2019. We were something like 38th/40 slots in Ontario.
Sadly they changed the guidelines on that one (in 2020 iirc) to a very generic “spirit through outreach” type-judging (source). Not that that’s a bad thing of course, but the gimme points are off the table for teams with a lot of energy to burn.
Quite honestly, im not sure i’d even try. I would assume the top teams would continue to do good, and while im not suggesting you guys wont, 1983 having a hard reset wasnt exactly something I was expecting to hear. Frankly, the best bet is to poke at past season district rankings and see whos consistently on top (2046, 1425, 2471, 4488, and recently 2910 come to mind) which should give a good idea of who will probably be at the top of their game even with the last couple years weighing them down.
can a 8th seed topple the 1st seed granted no catastrophic failures happen?
Yes, absolutely. The most recent example in PNW is probably 2018 Mount Vernon. That said, its not something id ever count on, esp at the events you are registered for this year.
Also if yall ever find yourselves wanting to use our field to practice we would gladly have you just shoot me a DM! Feels good to be in the PNW
While ill absolutely pass it onto the team (just volunteering this year), 4513 is on the far side of the state and that kind of trip is likely not in the cards, even pre-covid. Thank you for the generous offer though!
Absolutely! I think it’s a great award to have tbh, a lot of the outreach ones can seem daunting for rookie teams, but imo this one is so much more doable for get teams who don’t do as much community outreach to get them to start
