It appears that, at least from watching the Finger Lakes webcast, the real-time scoring system in the goals is not working well/at all.
Can anyone at an event corroborate?
FLR Match 12 saw the red alliance out 6+ discs into the 3 point goal in autonomous and they had a score of 0 coming into teleop. It was updated mid-match, but it worries me that they’re tasking referees with the additional task of counting how many discs are scored.
Supposedly there is a camera taking a snapshot of the goals after auton. Presumably the scorekeeper or some kind of assistant reviews that snapshot, not a referee.
That’s interesting. Do you know where/what angle the camera is placed at? Just wondering if they can correctly see if discs are stacked or not.
No idea. It was in Frank’s Blog or something like that, a few days ago.
Is there actually a camera? I believe the blog post just used the word “snapshot,” but didn’t actually specify a camera. I interpreted that to mean they’re just going to note how many discs were scored in the goals at the end of autonomous.
Good point. Someone is probably counting then…awesome.
They did say there wouldn’t be a delay between autonomous and teleop:
We know how important it is that the scores are correct, so we will be verifying disc counts manually at the end of the autonomous period, and at the end of the match. **There will be no extra pause in gameplay between Autonomous and Teleop, but the folks checking the count will be taking a ‘snapshot’ of the number of discs in the goals before Teleop starts. **
I think what Cory is getting at is that once again, ensuring the auto score is correct is left to humans, which thanks to our fallibility, means that inevitably someone will make a mistake that affects the outcome of a match. Seriously; by now, FIRST should be able to design games that can be scored automatically, and accurately, with no room for human error.
I’ve seen scores flicker for entire matches.
Watching NYRO a minute ago, shortly after auto, the score was flickering 0-33 to 0-30, and then a few seconds later, it was 18-18.
So far, I’m totally unimpressed by the realtime scoring for this game.
There certainly seem to be problems. I too noticed the score flickering from 17 to 18 and back for one side in the last FLR match. Lots of trouble with autonomous scoring as well. Perhaps they could consider a manual/visual counting system while still taking the ‘snapshot’ into account.
aaaand FLR just had RTS fly to 147 for blue there before they took it off the screen.
FLR just flashed above 300. This is pretty bad.
Yup…
Here in Palmetto the scoring is awful. High score so far according to system was 1008 and not a single robot shot a disk. Like that in so many matches. Seems like even when it is corrected that it is still not right.
This is the main problem. Inaccurate real-time scores are worse than none at all, imo. It erodes people’s confidence in the final scores.
Folks, trust that the final score is accurate. Even if the crew has to count the discs by hand, they’ll be sure to get it right.
Call me cynical if you like, but I’ve been around this game long enough to know that I can’t just trust that it will be right.
I’ve seen dozens of scoring errors over the years that affected the outcome of the match, and upon discovery, the teams were basically told “Oh well, crummy luck.”
Never mind the hundreds of scoring errors that didn’t affect the outcome of the match that I’ve seen.
I frequently hear people hide behind GP, as if expecting the event to be run in accordance with the rules and corrected accordingly when mistakes are made is too much to expect of volunteers. I wholeheartedly disagree. Event volunteers should be expected to be able to officiate the games in full compliance with the game manual. Period. Anything less is unprofessional.
When I read this, I think of Lunacy.
The Great Car Nack is right again.
The “snapshot” is virtual - there are humans that are counting and writing down the number of discs scored in autonomous. All the discs are counted as the goal bins are emptied at the end of the match.
I have seen scores “flickering”; presumably as the sensor picks up a weight that’s nearly halfway between the weight of two discs and it’s trying to figure out which discrete value to display.
One time the big screen showed a score of 404 until the FTA jostled the goal bin and the sensor went back on.
At Traverse City they had to replace the sensors or re-calibrate them 3 or 4 times today.
I don’t believe there is a huge point swing once the manual count has been done. We had one match where the field crew counted correctly, but the numbers were entered into FMS for the wrong alliances - red and blue reversed. When that was pointed out several matches later, the scores were corrected.
It is unfortunate that the automated scoring doesn’t work, and it does slow things down a little because it takes longer for field reset and scoring. But to FIRST’s credit, they did admit that the system didn’t work and came up with the manual backup. They didn’t try to claim that “The sensors are always right.”