Is it just me or is there a general lack of rules regarding removing game pieces from trailers?
OK, I know the robot can’t extend beyond the 28x38x50 size, so it’s hard to make a boom to reach out and remove balls from your own traler, or from a team mate’s… but if your robot was built smaller, eg: 28x24 it’s possible that you could reach out 14" into a team-mate’s tralier and remove their balls (so to speak).
Can’t see where the rules prevent this.???
Likewise, any reason why your robot can’t reach back and sheild your own trailer or flick balls out when they get deposited?
Yeah, I was thinking/looking at the same thing. One thing that makes it very hard to block/descore from your own trailer is the trailer needs to behind the short side (28). So, since the trailer is 7 inches from your robot and assuming you need atleast 3 inches to descore, I think it would be very hard to build a robot in at the very most 18 inches.
Descoring from other’s trailer’s may be more plausable, but unless done with insanly skill, two robots will have to be stopped, which would allow for two very easy targets.
<G32> ROBOT to ROBOT Interaction - Strategies aimed solely at the destruction, damage, tipping
over, or entanglement of ROBOTS or TRAILERS are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not
allowed. In all cases involving ROBOT-to-ROBOT or ROBOT-to-TRAILER contact, the
TEAM may receive a PENALTY and/or their ROBOT may be disqualified if the interaction is
inappropriate or excessive. However, it is noted that Lunacy is a highly interactive game.
Robust construction of ROBOTS will be very important in this high-speed competition.
ROBOTS should be designed to withstand the contact that will occur during the MATCH.
the bold part might include alliance bots too, I might be mistaken
Whew! I was wondering when this thread would start … and I didn’t have the gumption to start it myself … but you’ve let the cat outta’ the bag.
The only relevent rule I could find is: G32 Robot-to-Robot Interaction
It says that “contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable” which could rule out trying to stick an arm into somebody else’s trailer (but not necessarilty your own trailer)
It’s not really spelled out for us yet, but I don’t think they want us digging around in each others trailers, trying to eject balls.
Perhaps the size envelope limitations are enough to ensure that we don’t attempt that strategy. … but I felt really good there for a while this morning thinking that my camera could detect a SUPER CELL in my trailer and toss it OUT as the timer reaches zero.
D. Contact with a tilted or tipped ROBOT outside the BUMPER ZONE (particularly by the
BUMPERS of the contacting ROBOT) will generally be considered incidental contact and
will not be penalized.
E. Contact outside of the BUMPER ZONE is not acceptable, and will result in a PENALTY.
The offending ROBOT may be disqualified from the MATCH if the offense is particularly
egregious or if it results in substantial damage to another ROBOT.
F. A ROBOT may not attach to and/or climb onto a ROBOT or TRAILER. Doing so will be
interpreted as an attempt to damage an opposing ROBOT, and will be penalized as
such.
Reaching into another trailer violates the out of bumper rule and might be considered attaching or climbing onto a trailer
That’s prbly not allowed cause if you were to cover it, you would have to use your robot to do that, cause you can’t build a cover on top of it, and if your robot does cover it, that violates the out of the bumper zone rule.
Keep in mind that the robot must not exceed the 28"x38"x60" size restrictions at any time during the match.
It looks like the trailer tongue will stick out 4" from the trailer, and that the trailer is 28" edge to edge. So to meaningfully grasp a ball and extract it from your own trailer, you might need to reach out about 18-20" (I’m sure this can be optimized down a bit with careful design) That leaves about 20" (of the 38") to build your robot.
So, it could be done. It would probably be easier to descore them from one of your alliance member’s trailers, however, as you wouldn’t need to account for the trailer hitch.
I would place 50-50 odds on there being a “no descoring” rule clarification on the Q&A forum this week… but only 50-50 as the GDC may feel that the size limitations are already sufficient disincentive for this strategy.
So basically, trailer + tongue will be equal to 38 inches total. It’s possible (but difficult) to grab a ball out of your own trailer, provided they’ve rolled around to the back. It’s pretty much impossible to block your trailer from being scored in.
Correct me if I’m wrong, but I think the bumper zone is your robot’s bumpers, and not the trailer’s bumpers, but if there is something that I didn’t catch, go ahead and correct me.
I think even if somebody figures out how to eject balls from a trailer, they will still be counted. I say this because, in the rules it says if a trailer tips over and the balls are lost, however many there were in there at that time, before it tipped, are still scored.
Sorry i’m on hold with Walmart trying to get more of those orbit balls haha…
little bored so i have to add…
What if you were to, say, direct a current of air at your trailer?
You can’t reach outside your bumper zone but if you dumped it, and were extremely close to the opponent bot, I think, that’s allowable, it’s in the animation so why not
you flat out cannot go outside the defined envelope.
but if you had a little ball gun, like in aim-high, you could toss them over to the trailer, or if you had a big gun you could shoot them across the room.
if you had a little gun on the top that could spit them into the trailer in front of you, or into the corner pocket.
but you definitely cannot reach outside of the limit
I think that any discussion of de-scoring is pretty moot, from a logistics perspective.
Even if you can de-score balls in your own trailer, there are still two other trailers on your alliance that the opposing alliance is now focusing on because they know you’ll try to de-score their pieces. So, now your de-scoring is for nothing.
Secondly, the energy and time you spend de-scoring pieces could be much more efficiently and effectively in legally scoring pieces as the game is designed…which seems much more graciously professional to me.
Overall, the gain of de-scoring opposing pieces is negligible compared to the penalty risk for outside of bumper zone contact as well as the loss of time you could be using to score your own moon rocks.
Correct me if Im wrong, but is it possible to build a forklift-ish thing on the back side of a slightly smaller robot? this pronged arm could be placed at the base of the trailer at the beggining or directly after, the beginning of the game. Then in the final seconds, you could flip the arm up and launch any rocks out of the trailer. It would not be attaching to the trailer, if it does not touch the sprockets of the trailer.
The way I see it, and correct me if I’m wrong, the rules state that you cannot touch another ROBOT. The rules also seem to acknowledge that the trailer is NOT part of the ROBOT by using phrases such as “The ROBOT and the TRAILER.” So I believe that if you can somehow create a small enough ROBOT, with an appendage that fits inside the given space, you can touch other teams’ trailers without grabbing or climbing the trailer and still be legal.
I also believe that this applies to your own trailer, if you can still fit into the space requirements.
