Repair Time After Reginals

FIRST General Forum
1

Posted by Jim Meyer.

Engineer on team #67, HOT Team, from Huron Valley Schools and GM Milford Proving Ground.

Posted on 9/12/2000 7:47 AM MST

I am new to these Forums but this has had me worried lately.

Rumor has it that FIRST is considering limiting the repair time folowing a regional to two days, regardless of how many regionals you attend. For instance a team would only be able to make repairs/modifications after their last regional. I believe the intent of this would be to ‘level the playing field’ by allowing all teams the same additional development time.

This doesn’t sound reasonable to me because there may be no way for us to repair a complex part outside of our own machine shop. We typically haven’t even tried to make this sort of repair/modification at an event. My perception is that complicated machining would be very difficult at an event. Not being able to do work in our own shop between regionals would be a severe handicap.

I would agree that it would level the playing field though. I’m just not sure it is practical. I would rather see all teams given the two days following each regional to do repairs/modifications. I am somewhat biased because the HOT Team typically attends 3 regionals.

No matter what rules they create there will always be an advantage to attending multiple regionals.

What do you guys think?

2

Posted by Michael Ciavaglia.

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Interior Systems.

Posted on 9/12/2000 9:26 AM MST

In Reply to: Repair Time After Reginals posted by Jim Meyer on 9/12/2000 7:47 AM MST:

Here is a couple of suggestions to alleviate the time restriction problem. This could also reduce the amount of practice time that is necessary at each event.

OPTION 1:
Have NO SHIP DATE!

We all get the game and rules at the kickoff. We all have the same amount of time between the kickoff and the Nationals. The only difference in between is how the time is used.

Ex (Team N is going to a regional):
Team N is playing at the ABC Regional. Show up with your robot ready to play.

Ex (Team M is only going to the Nationals):
Team M is playing at the Nationals. Show up with your robot ready to play.

OPTION 2:

For those who still would like to have the traditional ship date approximately six weeks after the kickoff, here is another option.

For example, last year the ship date was Feb. 22 for everyone. There were 4 weeks of regionals. I propose: for each week that a team DOES NOT attend a regional, add 2 days. So the formula to figure out your team’s ship date is:

 Team Y's Ship Date = Feb. 22 + (4-x)*2 days

 where:     
 x = number of attended regionals

Ex 1: (Team Y is going to one regional)
Team Y’s Ship Date = Feb. 22 + (4-1)*2 = Feb. 22 + 6 days = Feb. 28

Ex 2: (Team Z is going to four regionals)
Team Z’s Ship Date = Feb.22 + (4-4)*2 = Feb. 22 + 0 days = Feb. 22

This would stager the shipments for the Drayage Co. and help level the disadvantage for teams that attend fewer regionals.

I am very curious what your thoughts are! If you had to vote, how would you vote? 1,2, or neither.

Mike C.

3

Posted by Andy Baker.

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 9/12/2000 10:24 AM MST

In Reply to: A couple of options posted by Michael Ciavaglia on 9/12/2000 9:26 AM MST:

Mike,

Nice proposal… I especially like the equations! You must be an ‘expert’ mathematician. :slight_smile:

I vote for #2.

I use to be in the ‘camp’ that wanted to keep the robots throughout the season. BUT, I also have to keep all of my bosses happy. My bosses include my wife, my 2 daughters, and my supervisor at work. I REALLY enjoy the break we get after shipping.

Andy B.

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Posted by Michael Ciavaglia.

Engineer on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central High School and Delphi Interior Systems.

Posted on 9/13/2000 6:48 AM MST

In Reply to: 1 vote for #2 posted by Andy Baker on 9/12/2000 10:24 AM MST:

Andy,

I know how you feel about having a ship date. I also prefer option #2.

The original ship date was Feb. 21, but this was changed because of President’s Day. Prior to the change my boss (a.k.a. my wife) was ecstatic because Feb. 21 is her birthday and we had planned a nice party until the ship date changed. It reminded me of the time I suggested that we change our wedding day because of a football game. (Not recommended for the single people reading this!!)

Mike C.

5

Posted by Nate Smith.

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 9/12/2000 12:31 PM MST

In Reply to: A couple of options posted by Michael Ciavaglia on 9/12/2000 9:26 AM MST:

: Here is a couple of suggestions to alleviate the time restriction problem. This could also reduce the amount of practice time that is necessary at each event.

: OPTION 1:
: Have NO SHIP DATE!

: We all get the game and rules at the kickoff. We all have the same amount of time between the kickoff and the Nationals. The only difference in between is how the time is used.

: Ex (Team N is going to a regional):
: Team N is playing at the ABC Regional. Show up with your robot ready to play.

: Ex (Team M is only going to the Nationals):
: Team M is playing at the Nationals. Show up with your robot ready to play.

:
: OPTION 2:

: For those who still would like to have the traditional ship date approximately six weeks after the kickoff, here is another option.

: For example, last year the ship date was Feb. 22 for everyone. There were 4 weeks of regionals. I propose: for each week that a team DOES NOT attend a regional, add 2 days. So the formula to figure out your team’s ship date is:

: Team Y’s Ship Date = Feb. 22 + (4-x)

6

Posted by Nate Smith.

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 9/12/2000 12:35 PM MST

In Reply to: I’d go for #2, but one problem… posted by Nate Smith on 9/12/2000 12:31 PM MST:

: : Here is a couple of suggestions to alleviate the time restriction problem. This could also reduce the amount of practice time that is necessary at each event.

: : OPTION 1:
: : Have NO SHIP DATE!

: : We all get the game and rules at the kickoff. We all have the same amount of time between the kickoff and the Nationals. The only difference in between is how the time is used.

: : Ex (Team N is going to a regional):
: : Team N is playing at the ABC Regional. Show up with your robot ready to play.

: : Ex (Team M is only going to the Nationals):
: : Team M is playing at the Nationals. Show up with your robot ready to play.

: :
: : OPTION 2:

: : For those who still would like to have the traditional ship date approximately six weeks after the kickoff, here is another option.

: : For example, last year the ship date was Feb. 22 for everyone. There were 4 weeks of regionals. I propose: for each week that a team DOES NOT attend a regional, add 2 days. So the formula to figure out your team’s ship date is:

: : Team Y’s Ship Date = Feb. 22 + (4-x)

7

Posted by Nate Smith.

Other on team #66, GM Powertrain/Willow Run HS, from Eastern Michigan University and GM Powertrain.

Posted on 9/12/2000 12:38 PM MST

In Reply to: A couple of options posted by Michael Ciavaglia on 9/12/2000 9:26 AM MST:

: For those who still would like to have the traditional ship date approximately six weeks after the kickoff, here is another option.

: For example, last year the ship date was Feb. 22 for everyone. There were 4 weeks of regionals. I propose: for each week that a team DOES NOT attend a regional, add 2 days. So the formula to figure out your team’s ship date is:

: Team Y’s Ship Date = Feb. 22 + (4-x)*2 days

: where:
: x = number of attended regionals

: Ex 1: (Team Y is going to one regional)
: Team Y’s Ship Date = Feb. 22 + (4-1)*2 = Feb. 22 + 6 days = Feb. 28

: Ex 2: (Team Z is going to four regionals)
: Team Z’s Ship Date = Feb.22 + (4-4)*2 = Feb. 22 + 0 days = Feb. 22

: This would stager the shipments for the Drayage Co. and help level the disadvantage for teams that attend fewer regionals.

While I like the looks of this idea, looking at this year’s calendar, it could pose a small problem for those teams attending regionals the first weekend…

Estimated 2001 Ship Date: Feb 20
3 weeks of not attending regionals: 6 extra days
Modified Ship Date: MONDAY, Feb 26, 4PM
Regional Start Date: THURSDAY, Mar 1, 8AM

My thoughts drift back to the need for FIRST to have a special shipper at the last two regionals last year to go directly to WDW…if I was a team that was only going to the first set of regionals, I’d be afraid of getting there and not having a machine…esp. since drayage drops them off at the event site a day or two before teams start showing up…

Nate

8

Posted by Splash.

Student on team #53, Team Inferno, from Eleanor Roosevelt High School and NASA GSFC.

Posted on 9/12/2000 7:50 PM MST

In Reply to: Repair Time After Reginals posted by Jim Meyer on 9/12/2000 7:47 AM MST:

: Rumor has it that FIRST is considering limiting the repair time folowing a regional to two days, regardless of how many regionals you attend. For instance a team would only be able to make repairs/modifications after their last regional. I believe the intent of this would be to ‘level the playing field’ by allowing all teams the same additional development time.

I think if you make it you should be able to repair it. Two days a team is fair and a great idea I brought up in one of the previous threads. By going to more than one regional, teams have more time to test and work on their robot. They should not also have an addition 2 to 6 days of time.

9

Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]

Coach on team #246, Blue Light Special, from John D. O’Byrant High School/Boston Latin Academy and NSTAR/Boston University/UTC/Raytheon/MassPEP.

Posted on 9/13/2000 6:56 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: Repair Time After Reginals posted by Splash on 9/12/2000 7:50 PM MST:

Amy,

I agree with what you said… teams going to multiple regionals have extra days anyway and therefore shouldn’t get more… they should have 2 days after their last regional for repair and then ship to nationals… that way everyone gets the 2 days before their robot heads to nationals…

my thoughts

10

Posted by Jim Meyer.

Engineer on team #67, HOT Team, from Huron Valley Schools and GM Milford Proving Ground.

Posted on 9/14/2000 12:34 PM MST

In Reply to: Re: Repair Time After Reginals posted by Splash on 9/12/2000 7:50 PM MST:

: I think if you make it you should be able to repair it. Two days a team is fair and a great idea I brought up in one of the previous threads. By going to more than one regional, teams have more time to test and work on their robot. They should not also have an addition 2 to 6 days of time.

If we should all be able to repair our robots during events, what is the need for any additional time between events? We could just eliminate it all together!

11

Posted by Andy Baker.

Engineer on team #45, TechnoKats, from Kokomo High School and Delphi Automotive Systems.

Posted on 9/14/2000 2:16 PM MST

In Reply to: Repair Time After Reginals posted by Jim Meyer on 9/12/2000 7:47 AM MST:

: My perception is that complicated machining would be very difficult at an event. Not being able to do work in our own shop between regionals would be a severe handicap.

Looking back on last year, we had no time to make repairs to the robot after any Regional. In order to deal with this restriction, we had to make our complicated machines out of simple, easy-to-machine parts. This simplicity lead to the most worry-free robot we have had in years. We only used 10% of the ‘skilled labor’ that we used in years past. While sticking to this ‘simplify’ state of mind, we still got the ‘Creativity Award’ at Nationals.

Also, if you must have a complicated part… make spares!

Last year’s lack of repair time after competitions seemed very scary at first, but if you prepared for it, it was not that bad to deal with.

Andy B.

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