Result of LVL 3 HAB every match

If a team is able to do a solo Lvl 3 HAB every match what are the odds of ranking in the top 8 in a avg. regional?
8 matches at the regional lets say the team is able to get 7rp for HAB
assume they win 1/2 of their matches + 8 rp
Maybe the rocket gets filled 1 match + 1 rp
that is 16 rp or 2 rp per match
Would that be enough this year to rank in the top 8?

Depends on the regional, if you’re the only one doing lvl 3 every time, you will definitely rank high

I think it really depends on the week. As the season goes on the requirements to be in the top 8 will get tougher. This might work week 1 or 2 but I do not think it will work week 5. Unless you improve your robot.

1 Like

True, one would have to do a lot of projecting and guessing to get an answer to my question. We are attending Lake Superior week 2. Looking at the list of teams attending I would not consider it a strong regional although I have not looked at the BBQ for it yet.

Compared to the first Indiana district for the last 3 years, no robot in the top 8 has every loss more or the same number of matches as they have won.
Interesting question though, I’m interested to look into it more.

If a team had 1 extra ranking point each match they would certainly have a large advantage, through some basic research I found out that ~75-85% of teams would rank in the top 8 if you added 1RP to their average match score for the event.

EDIT: Based on the 2018 season.

1 Like

Sounds like a moderately viable way of sneaking into the tail end of the top 8. It also sounds like a recipe for getting destroyed in the playoffs.


At 2018 LSR, a ranking score of 2 put you in rank 9. At 2017 LSR (Steamworks had a much tougher RP challenge) this score would have put you dominantly in 1st place. I think it’s definitely fair to guess that a score of 2 would put you in the top 8. I disagree that you would get destroyed, as long as you’re handy with some hatches and have good scouts, the L3 HAB is a significant amount of points.

1 Like

If you can reliably and quickly get to level 3 you should do quite well. In a 63 team regional, that may not be something that will get you into the top 8. I would bet that in Lake Superior you’ll see 3 to 5 robots that will be able to reliably get onto the level 3 hab platform. You’ll see 1 or 2 robots that can reliably get the rocket ranking point.

The teams that can get the rocket ranking point are going to finish at the top of the rankings. If you can get the rocket RP, you can score lots of points which means you’re going to win most matches. Those teams will average 2.75 or more RP per match.

If you want to rank in a picking position with a level 3 hab climb you’ll likely need to win more than 50% of your matches as well. From that perspective, the level 3 hab climb is worth it, but a robot that can score hatches and cargo is still better.

Level 2 isn’t worth it at all. It depends on all 3 robots running at the end of the match and one of the other robots getting to level 2 also. Since you can’t count on the ranking point, all a level 2 climb nets you is 3 points. Any mechanism you put on your robot to get to level 2 is almost certainly going to make your robot less effective with hatches and cargo. You just need one extra hatch or cargo to make a level 2 climb pointless. Once you strip off the weight required to get to level 2 and account for the extra time it’s going to take you’re almost certainly losing points to climb to level 2.

The top alliances are likely going to have at least 1 robot that can get to Level 3. I’m not disagreeing that teams that can get to level 3 HAB will seed well… but in order to do well in the playoffs they’ll need to be quality cyclers in addition to climbing. A team that prioritizes climbing to level 3 over cycling with the idea that just doing that will help them seed high is going to be a less efficient cycler.

Well, I don’t know much about the regional system, but consider this in relation to the district system. if you were, hypothetically, to lose every single match at your typical district event, yet still climb level 3 and subsequently get the rp every time, that would still be 12 rp in quals alone. Let’s look at last year’s stats to see where that would rank you. Using the PNW Aburn Event, a very competitive event, you would get placed right around 25th place.

Now that’s not horrible, but also not great, so let’s keep going. 25th is assuming you lose every single match, witch you won’t. Especially considering that the teams that can successfully climb are likely the higher teir team, subsequently likely are competitive at all other actions on the feild, let’s assume you win half of your matches. Again, using 2018 PNW Aburn, you can see that you would rank at an impressive 5th place (in a game witch is arguably significantly harder to get additional rp from than 2018). As a reference, the team that got 5th at this competition went 9-3.

In my huble oppion, teams that can successfully climb the year will be the power house teams. I have no doubt.


Here we see a wonderful case study of correlation versus causation.

Being able to climb to L3 does not mean that you are better at the game at a whole. Nor do I think it will be a good indicator of robot performance in a vacuum (see 2013 pyramid-only bots).

I agree with your conclusion if you flip the sets around! IE Powerhouse teams will be able to climb to L3.

The problem is that an L3 climb is incentivized more in quals than in elims, that is, it’s worth more in the former than the latter. If your only strength just got weaker, then you just got a lot weaker.

1 Like

So looking at the regional historically 2rp per match would have made you:
2018 Rank 9-10
2017 Rank 1
2016 Rank 10-16

In my opinion looking at Lake Superior historically you would seed outside of the top 8 with only a 2rp average per match

Last year at Minnesota North Star Team 1625 had a 5-5 record, ranked second, and won the event, so something like this has succeeded before.

I respectfully disagree. I feel strongly that the ability to climb to level 3 is far beyond the ability of any low resource team, and the majority of mid teir teams. That leaves the top 25% of teams to theoretically be able to climb, however most of them will likely chose not too.

Most of the high teir teams relize that the benefit of climbing goes down substantially (however still provides a great benit) and would be entirely foolish to try and attempt to be an entirely climb only bot. Not only would you likely not win most of your matches, but you would likely never get picked for an alliance. As a captin, I would much rather have a defense bot then a climb bot, especially if I can climb myself.

Finally, if a team has a the resources and expertise to build a 100% successful climb, they certainly have the ability to strap on, at the very least, a hatch system.

At first a robot might be able to rank high if the only thing they can do is climb, but later on in the season I feel that if the only thing a robot can do is climb to the third level each match, it will be very hard to separate itself from the crowd of robots who can all do the same thing.

In case people are concerned about level 3 climbers being dominated in finals against those who can’t, a level 3 climb is equal to (at worst) 4 cycles. If you had 15 second cycles, there would 60 seconds worth of game play. Snow problems showed off a 15 second 3rd level climber in their Ri3d video, so that would mean 45 extra seconds, which is an extra 3 cycles for the opponents to make in order to catch up.
Just some food for thought.

1 Like

Plus a ranking point…witch is the important part.

3 cycles. The net score between level 3 and 1 is 9 points, and unless you’re leaping to level 3 from outside the hab zone, you start with the 3 points for level 1.

1 Like

I’ll go with four cycles. Unless your qualifications (not elims) alliance has 12 points so far, it may not be worth it to go back to the HAB at all if you’re busy cycling.

Edit: I can see teams removing climbers (including ramps) between quals and elims to drop weight and speed up their cycling.

1 Like