Ok, so i’m here to revive Raptor/Rhino (Rhinos are better) Tracks. Lets discuss the Pros and Cons of each one. In my opinion, I think Rhino tracks are the superior drive. Lets say your Robot breaks and all it can do is drive, Your robot will be an astounding defense bot until you have a break to fix your bot. However, that rarely happens so lets look at it this way. My team last year (5464’s 2019 bot) when we went to the first competition we had signed up for none of our mechanisms worked and things looked bare. So, while we had the time in the pits to perfect our mechanisms we slowly became the most feared defense bot in the comp. In our last comp we focused on getting a few hatch panels on and then going ham on defense. In two different matches we caused the number 1 team and the number 3 team to score a very low amount of points. They usually filled up 1 rocket and some cargo ship. They were a power house of a team. and we only let them get 1 and a half levels of the rocket. (Team 5172) and (Team 4009) I could go over many more pros, but I want to see how you guys take it.
Nope
Tell why you disagree, I would love to know!
Everything you can do with rhino and raptor treads, a 6wd/8wd can do better.
Datapoints against rhino treads:
4513’s 2016 season. There was a lot of things wrong, and one of them was spending the money on the threads, as cool as they were at the time. the pulleys had issues and we could of done everything we could of with pneumatic wheels just fine with less headache for making everything work.
Datapoints for regular drivetrain defense:
4513 at their first event last year had everything except the chassis broke or failed miserably in actually scoring. Still got picked by the #1 alliance, and shut down teams through playoffs. Did the same at DCMP, managed to get to semis before 2910 and 2046’s offensive power were just too much to compete with.
When my team used the rhino tracks in 2016, we found that when we were pushed sideways, the tracks has a decent chance of coming off the pulleys, leaving us completely useless, and stuck in the middle of the field.
I disagree, because if you watch the footage of last year (2019) you will see us pushing around those robots like it was nothing.
Pushing people around does not (automatically) equal good defense. Reducing the rate of scoring of your opponents / denying them points / RP more than you could be earning is.
Another point to add onto Tim’s, the fact of whether or not you’re pushing a team around has everything to do with whether your robot has more tractive force than your opponents. Having higher traction with the ground is one aspect of that, but if your opponent has more motors/geared slower in their drive train, that is almost always going to be the more important aspect.
Well, we have never encountered that and we have used Rhino tracks our whole career except the first year. The key to that not happening is finding the perfect tension on the bot. You also want to make sure that you put your wheel pulleys on very tightly.
A reply to both Tim and LukeB. With the Rhino tracks you (if driven correctly) will have more traction than any other bot on the field. If your robot breaks and you cannot fix it in time for your next match, you just add weight and you will have traction TO THE MAX. Sorry HAHA.
We used Rhino tracks in 2016, to go over Defenses. Has not been needed since. They were great for that game.
If a bot has a lower gear ratio than your robot with Rhino Tracks, it may have more torque but we have encountered that and we countered the next year by using Evo Shifters. And if we needed to push, we put it in low gear.
We ran rhino tracks in 2016 and had a rough experience. We felt like they were slow, which could have been fixed with gearing, but still wasn’t ideal. If we tried to do any fancy maneuvers like back up and make a quick turn and flip the robot around, we ended up either losing the track, or snapping it. They feel really tippy when driving due to the contact area on the floor being so little compared to the entire length of the robot. Replacing the track felt to take a lot longer than replacing a wheel.
We switched to WCD in 2017 and never even considering going to rhino tracks. Reliability is greatly improved, so is speed. And I feel like for defense, it’s better to slow the robot you are defending, block them out, and make things more difficult, not just pushing robots.
I understand your frustration with Rhino tracks, but if you put together these tracks correctly you will not be dissatisfied. We have never had issues with the pulleys or anything of that sort. I think you should give them another try and if you are having trouble feel free to contact me. On Pneumatic wheels, I think that Pneumatic wheels cause issues in terms of wanting to push things or even go over bumps smoothly.
You misunderstand me. Traction != Tractive force. Tractive force is solely a result of the amount of torque your motors are putting out. The maximum amount of traction that your treads could put out only affects the maximum torque that your robot can use as a pushing force, in most situations this isn’t (and shouldn’t be) relevant.
Another huge disadvantage to treads as a concept is the huge amount of scrub they create when you’re turning. They have a hugely negative affect on your robots agility and it makes it very easy for the team you’re defending to maneuver around your defense and just make your efforts virtually useless.
One of the teams I was on (4131) used Rhino Treads in 2016 as well, and the end result of that was almost entirely disappointment that they didn’t do 6 wheel pneumatic drive train instead, due to the issue of scrub and the huge complexity of the drive train.
They were put together correctly. We were still dissatisfied.
For most teams the KOP Chassis is easier, faster to build, cheaper, and has a more streamlined maintenance than the treads.
Treads are cool, but theyre not going to be what captains are looking for in picks unless theyre really kicking butt in matches.
I agree with your defense strategy and we did just that, i just pointed out the fact that we pushed robots to show how much power they had. The Tracks can be slow but as your said that could be fixed with gearing. Also, as said above you have to find the perfect tension when using those tracks. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. We have also never snapped a track that seems like the track itself might have been messed up. I say that because we have used the same tracks 3 years in a row before and we never encountered that.
You’re evidence seems entirely anecdotal.
And in this case, you’ll find most people do not have you’re same results with treads, when looking at all facts.
Your experience may have been good with tracks. In my EXTENSIVE time in FRC, you’re one of about two hands worth of teams that have been able to pull it off cleanly and properly, without major issues.
And TWO of those teams–703 being one, and I want to say the other was 501–have ruled out using tracks going forwards, completely. 703 thought it was better to build 10-14 wheel robots than a tank track.
I would suggest that your arguments are 100% based on your own team’s anecdotal experience. Congratulations. Now at least do us the courtesy of listening to our collective anecdotal experience that goes back much further and has a much wider location spread, instead of saying “I see what you’re saying but TRACKS ARE THE BEST” with minimal further elaboration.
Incidentally: If one track fails, you will be dead in the water. For 75% of teams, that’s a dealbreaker right there, and I would hazard that that would drop you off of picklists if it should ever happen to you.